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Who's to Blame for Civ V?

Discussion in 'Civ5 - General Discussions' started by Defianc4, Oct 21, 2010.

  1. jjkrause84

    jjkrause84 King

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    I simply cannot believe that. All the old strategy gamers are still around and new ones are born every minute (....or at least every day!). I thought Civ4 sold remarkably well did it not? Maybe there was some sort of mass culling or plague which afflicted only strategy gamers after BtS?
     
  2. jjkrause84

    jjkrause84 King

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    Rememebr, some of us get substantial (40% or more) off a game if it is pre-ordered through amazon so to not pre-order the latest iteration of my favourite game series for the past 12 or so years would be pretty foolish, no?
     
  3. Licinia Eudoxia

    Licinia Eudoxia Empress

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    It's me. I'm the one to blame.

    You were all of you deceived. I gave four Civilizations to the lands of Men. But I forged another Civilization in secret, and poured into it my hatred and malice, and my will to dominate all life.
     
  4. SuperJay

    SuperJay Bending Space and Time

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    ...and some distant progenitor of our species found your Civ in a river on his brother's birthday, only to be killed by that brother, who then took your Civ and then ran off to hide for hundreds of years, eventually becoming a pale, freakish imp-like creature hiding in a cave under a mountain, talking to itself and eating raw fish from an underground lake? :eek:
     
  5. Neuro

    Neuro Warlord

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    What I don't understand is how so many arguments against Civ5 boil down to "It's not Civ4". Of course it's not Civ4; if it were, there'd be no reason to buy it.

    The only true issues with Civ5 are that the AI isn't very good. Newsflash: The AI has never been that great in any Civ. Combat was so simple in previous Civ games that the glaring omissions in AI weren't as noticeable.

    Civ5 has taken nothing away from your previous Civ experiences. If you don't like it, ignore it and play Civ4.
     
  6. Goldshade

    Goldshade Chieftain

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    Aug 19, 2009
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    It's quite simple; for the sake of extreme short term profits the Civ legacy was butchered.

    The total absence of beta players rooting for the game, the absence of Sid rooting for the game, the absence of Soren rooting for the game, the absence of anyone having any weight in the Civ community speaking positively about the game is heard by its silence. I've tried to play it, but it's just horrible.

    Noone I know that really liked Civ since the nineties is even considering buying Civ6 if it ever comes out. Over and out. Console versions will NEVER be an option; even dumbed down versions will be too difficult and/or boring. The Civ franchise depends on PC players who are now alienated for the most part. That is the part that stings; you're depending on a community and you're giving them the finger. Wow, great move. I really can't see Civ bouncing back with this HUGE scar unless Sid makes a commitment to take back his game.

    It's fine really, I'll just play something else. I just think it's a pity for throwing such a fine game into the gutter.
     
  7. Licinia Eudoxia

    Licinia Eudoxia Empress

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    Is that where it is? I've been looking all over for it.
     
  8. LegioCorvus

    LegioCorvus Prince

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    What I don't understand is how so many arguments against the Star Wars prequels boil down to "It's not like the original Star Wars". Of course it's not the original Star Wars; if it were, there'd be no reason to buy it.

    The only true issues with the prequels are that the acting isn't very good. Newsflash: The acting has never been that great in any Star Wars movie. The story was so simple in previous Star Wars that the glaring omissions in acting weren't as noticeable.

    The prequels have taken nothing away from your previous Star Wars experiences. If you don't like it, ignore it and watch the original Star Wars.

    :mischief:

    Sorry, I couldn't help it. I've heard this argument so many times over the years in so many different versions. :lol:
     
  9. Neuro

    Neuro Warlord

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    i c wut u did thar
     
  10. cortic

    cortic Chieftain

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    That's a stupid argument. It would be preferable if the criticisms of the game got through to Firaxis and they improved the game.
     
  11. TheMeInTeam

    TheMeInTeam Top Logic

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    That one is, as far as I know, exclusive to civ IV. If you are ending turns fast enough, at the start of the following turn units that have been given orders to move beyond their range last turn will AUTOMATICALLY continue that order the following turn.

    That's not too bad, until you realize that such units will move into range of dangers they can see prior to moving. That's pretty bad, but it gets worse. In this situation, you can click on a unit to try to interrupt this order before it happens. Upon clicking on that unit, it will move anyway before you can give it orders. That's seriously sour.

    It's garbage like the above that killed any desire I had to play HoF games. It's too easy to lose workers to barbs after they moved into danger despite seeing it (with no ability to interrupt), AND used up their moves on a tile improvement if that was queued up with a threatening unit right next to them, or siege moving right next to enemy knights IN YOUR TERRITORY AT TURN START, that kind of thing.

    It made waypoints, queues, and other time-saving actions decidedly un-playable in competitive settings, such as HoF. Not willing to have someone beat me simply because they're willing to wait around doing nothing longer, I simply stopped playing that format.

    This is less of a problem in V, but for the wrong reasons:

    - it's harder to queue things up en-masse in cities
    - 1upt takes away some practicality of waypoints (even so, it's not like they'd be USELESS ----> why can't we have them?)
    - it's hard to move units at all, because the UI lags behind my commands. I will often...very often...including multiple times in my one LP and plenty of offline games...attempt to move into a tile. Red dot hex. Try again. Red dot hex. Try a third time ----> OK, I can move there now. Okay...

    So civ V comes out a little favorably with unit control than civ IV, but really only because it was given less chance to totally screw you through fewer control options to begin with, not a positive change but probably better than "alleged" controls that don't function consistently like in civ IV (like, say, attempting to alt-select all in a stack and then shift-click to remove something. I have asked this many times on this forum: WHY was increasing galley spawn rate or bugging overflow [again] a higher priority than fixing basic hotkey controls? WHY is it possible, in 3.19, to declare war by ACCIDENT, without prompt? To quote angry video game nerd..."WHAT WERE THEY THINKING?!")
     
  12. Roxlimn

    Roxlimn Deity

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    I think most of the guys who were playing Civ IV relentlessly and expected Civ V to be Civ: EU Edition, only have themselves to blame. Many of the systems in Civ V work the same way they do in Civ IV. In fact some systems work better.

    If you played Civ 3 at Emperor, there was no guarantee you would play as well in Civ IV because many of the systems designed to give the player an advantage were new. Those have been carried over into Civ V and are no longer new, so Civ IV veterans are correspondingly better at them. Much of the time you spend going from Prince to Emperor in Civ IV has to do with discovering these systems, so carrying them over to Civ V means that good Civ IV players are automatically good at Civ V.

    The only way that would be untrue would be if Civ V were even less like Civ IV than it currently is, or if we layer 20 more subsystems on Civ IV on top of what it already has, which would make it unwieldy and probably unsaleable.
     
  13. evrett37

    evrett37 Prince

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  14. masterminded

    masterminded Chieftain

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    So the solution is that we (as in you and I) must throw it (every copy of Civ V) into a Volcano brimming with demonic power (the city landfill) to fix everything (the state of the series)?
     
  15. Grape Flavor

    Grape Flavor Chieftain

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    Gee, I dunno, go straight to the top? http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?p=9798139#post9798139

    Sid Meier doesn't care about gameplay. He doesn't care about strategy. He doesn't care about anything but the Wii set, and what game can entrance the most amount of feeble-minded casuals for the least possible effort.

    So why should his underlings be any different?
     
  16. Dun Malg

    Dun Malg Chieftain

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    Having worked in the industry before, I'd say that the lead dev would be unlikely to have played the game in a form even remotely resembling the finished product until probably a week (or less!) before release. Given the state of the game, I'd even wager that they were still hammering away at it hours before the deadline for delivering the "gold" package to the press. Big titles have so many people working on different modules separately that often there's little more than a crude unfinished framework up until the very end. That's how you end up with abominations like MoO3. The ideas all look good on the whiteboard, but you get to the end and find out you have a game that isn't fun when you put the parts together.
     
  17. TheMeInTeam

    TheMeInTeam Top Logic

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    So, you wanted us to violate the NDA? Or was it that you ignored what I said on release day and the immediate days following that? Maybe you chose to ignore the fact that some (probably all to some extent) of us tried:

    http://forums.civfanatics.com/showpost.php?p=9805304&postcount=23

    Maybe you should open your eyes to reality here. This game was released long before it was ready, and it shows.

    You think I didn't point these things out the instant I could? Before I even KNEW civ V existed, considering there are carry-over issues from IV that are quite glaring? You think the other beta testers, some of which are far superior players to either of us in at least some respects, didn't notice some of these things? Maybe because other issues existed too?

    You're out of your mind, guy. That cute little list you posted was supposed to catch the same thing that 100's to 1000's to 10000's times the # of players would catch post release, with only a very limited time before the game was released playing the final build?

    Tell you what, you climb mount everest with only your left pointer finger or swim the atlantic ocean un-aided or some such, and when you do that, come back here and blame the beta testers, some of whom had suggestions and opinions that were PUBLIC KNOWLEDGE before civ V was even known that were ignored. Good luck.

    Or were we supposed to program the fixes ourselves?
     
  18. PieceOfMind

    PieceOfMind Drill IV Defender Retired Moderator

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    Thanks for the explanation.
    I must say that the lag for accepting valid movement inputs is much more frustrating for me than any of the problems civ4 had. This is from someone who doesn't usually set long distance movement commands anyway unless it's entirely inside one's borders.

    To me it suggests the pathfinding algorithms have gotten much more complex (hey, all those whinging about civ5 not being complex enough could listen here!), probably thanks to 1upt and the embarkation changes. I don't know why, but for units on land, the path finding seems to ignore that units embarked on water move faster than 1 tile per turn, and it really messes up the shortest path because of this.

    I noticed you can turn off the path finding graphics in one of the ini files, though I'm not sure if it actually reduces the lag. Have you tried that setting at all? It just doesn't render the path with the nice graphical lines and circles etc, just puts a plain number on the tiles on the path.
     
  19. TheMeInTeam

    TheMeInTeam Top Logic

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    I haven't tried changing pathfinding in .ini, but I'll give it a look.

    I don't know how civ V code works, but given that people created cache mods that don't alter gameplay rules/behavior (while speeding it up) pretty quickly in civ IV, I'd say it's a safe bet that at least SOME turn times could be helped that way.
     
  20. Dun Malg

    Dun Malg Chieftain

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    Brian Reynolds, Jeff Briggs, and Soren Johnson apparently knew enough to not consult Sid on II, III, and IV. Someone apparently took the "Sid Meier's" in the title too literally and actually asked his opinion. What I don't understand is why Jon Shafer went totally nerf on V when he was part of the design team for CIV-PTW and CIV-BtS.
     

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