Whose idea was it to make Queen Boudica aggressive AND charismatic?

[bode404]

Guys, about the economic woes with Boudicca, you're forgetting one important (and very 'Boudiccan') thing:

You don't have to capture cities. You can raze them. And I suspect Boudicca, with her historical past in mind, will have a higher city raze prob than most others. You can therefore grind your enemies into dust without corrupting your own economy. On a pangaea map, this could spell doom for everybody.

And it really makes sense.
Well, I believe she'll be balanced. Running Feudalism and Theocracy for long periods will cripple your economy.
And it's not a very good deal to have an army of Combat 1, CR 3 swords and axes to conquer a couple of neighbours while another civ just finished researching Machinery. And remember that in BtS the AI will try any victory condition.
Anyway, I expect it'll be nice to play with her.

 

[thadian]

I just finally due to some nice guys learned HOW to change a civ's traits. I love celts out of my own bias despite their shortcomings.

I made brennus Aggr-Cha and i learned something about her balance of power.

She will be a warmongerer for sure, and she like monty wont be a techie.
She wont throw off the balance any more in MP than having Shaka and Monty on the same team. She will have some choices to make. Early troop rush for sure but mid-game she has to choose between expanding a small kingdom, and letting the army fall behind - or keeping a golliath army and letting her nation remain small. Even small, she will be formadable.

Overpowered? Well, it took me 2 games to win, the first one i tried to imitate shaka and became hopeless midgame. The second, i chose to grow and produce minimal units to not get off'd by someone. Once i had caught up in "size" i had no problem upgrading my military, and rushing fast.

I was unable to establish a tech lead, so i chose to maintain a MILITARY tech avg, fall behind in domestic techs (as i didnt need them for much anyway)

 

[thadian]

So with this in mind, i think she is...

No better or worse than anyone else. Then in game 3, i set him my opponent. He was VERY arrogant more than ever on demands - and though militarily inferior to my shaka he declared war once i refused (monarch). He was able to keep up in battle with me, but i didnt pursue him. The computer seemed to use this combo to keep the gold in science for tech, and use slavery for unit-whipping. Doing this i learned to watch h ow my opponents play to get their leads so in the future i can moniker some of their plays.

 

[winddbourne]

Looking at a lot of the changes I think what we're going to see is a total rebalance in BTS. A lot of stuff is going to be new, and we'll probably have to wait till we get the game in our hands to really see how it all works together. Especially a lot of the stuff that seems overly powerful on the surface.

I still remember hearing how Shaka was overpowered when Warlords was at this stage. Shaka and Hanibal were supposedly going to ruin our game.

So far I seldom play with either of them, or worry much when going against them. Other strategies matched my playstyle better in the end, and they don't cause a problem. Boudica probably won't be so "Uber" either.

 

[ReyLuis]

She's great if you go restricted, choose Romans, and Praet rush - but is hand picking to that extent really that much fun? I did it once just to experience it and, to be honest, even though I won an early conquest on Emperor (small, quick, panagea) the sense of achievement was very undrwhelming and short-lived

Go unrestricted leaders - random civ - random leader. Made me SUCH a better player

 

[Ataxerxes]

She's great if you go restricted, choose Romans, and Praet rush - but is hand picking to that extent really that much fun? I did it once just to experience it and, to be honest, even though I won an early conquest on Emperor (small, quick, panagea) the sense of achievement was very undrwhelming and short-lived

Go unrestricted leaders - random civ - random leader. Made me SUCH a better player

The thread is four years old. I doubt most of those posters are still around. And I agree, one should vary the leader choice. Although I'm not that fond of unrestricted leaders. Boudica of the Celts isn't particularly strong - Aggressive is a weaker trait and her UU and UB and both weak. I don't agree with the opening poster, who's moved on, I believe.

Frankly, for a killer combo I'd go Napoleon of the Romans. You don't raze so much and remember, land is power. I actually prefer Julius of Rome to Boudica of Rome.

 

[bhavv]

Oh noes, old thread is necroed!

But on the original topic of this thread, IMP + ORG (Julius Ceaser) is far too much better than AGG + CHA.

 

[HorribleHarald]

But why is Boudica Agg and Brennus Spi? Boudica led an uprising against an occupying forces of Rome, Brennus attacked and sacked Rome some centuries before. And why Brennus is Spiritual, now I don't get it what's behind of this?

 

[strijder20]

I actually like Zara Yacob of the Sumerians better than Boudica of the Romans.

 

[Utenlok]

I had to laugh when reading the original outrage of this thread. I very rarely see Boudica even mentioned in a game. Seems most value economic traits over military ones.

 

[TheMeInTeam]

Oh noes, old thread is necroed!

But on the original topic of this thread, IMP + ORG (Julius Ceaser) is far too much better than AGG + CHA.

I'm not sure I agree with that. Powerprats are quite unmatched for a while. Nigh instant access to CR II and easy access to raw power that tramples even AGG axes in the field is not to be underestimated. You do lack in econ, although with surplus and mass city capture gold you're not bad.

JC is more flexible however. Boudica is a (very powerful) one trick pony.

On normal speeds war chariot and immortal are probably better pure rush units, but on slower speeds these guys can basically double/triple rush with close to impunity.

Oddly I've been liking the PRO cho ko nu (you don't even need unrestricted to get to them) via machinery bulb. It's fairly easy to hit in the BCs with them with trades on, and pre longbow utility is absolutely crazy (although they do decently vs longbows also).

 

[strijder20]

I'm not sure I agree with that. Powerprats are quite unmatched for a while. Nigh instant access to CR II and easy access to raw power that tramples even AGG axes in the field is not to be underestimated. You do lack in econ, although with surplus and mass city capture gold you're not bad.

JC is more flexible however. Boudica is a (very powerful) one trick pony.

On normal speeds war chariot and immortal are probably better pure rush units, but on slower speeds these guys can basically double/triple rush with close to impunity.

Oddly I've been liking the PRO cho ko nu (you don't even need unrestricted to get to them) via machinery bulb. It's fairly easy to hit in the BCs with them with trades on, and pre longbow utility is absolutely crazy (although they do decently vs longbows also).

Maybe a bit of a stupid question, but does the collateral damage against melee defenders get multiplied by the +50% against melee units trait of the CKN?

 

[Manfred Belheim]

I'm still waiting for the day when Boudicca pops up as one of my AI opponents. Either my copy has some bug in it, or I'm pushing the limits of reasonable RNG.

 

[Utenlok]

I'm still waiting for the day when Boudicca pops up as one of my AI opponents. Either my copy has some bug in it, or I'm pushing the limits of reasonable RNG.

I have never played against her either. She has popped up a time or two on a game I quit because of map or distraction, but never on a game I played past 1000 BC.

 

[Utenlok]

TMIT, do you start your war with only Chokus or do you wait for a good seige stack? I understand the principles involved in this strat, but I seem to always flub up the details. And by "always" I mean the 3 whole times I have tried it. lol

 

[Ataxerxes]

I'm still waiting for the day when Boudicca pops up as one of my AI opponents. Either my copy has some bug in it, or I'm pushing the limits of reasonable RNG.

Partly RNG. However, IIRC when the computer selects leaders, it selects the civilization first, then the leader. So leaders of Civs with more than one leader don't get selected as often. We're much more likely to get opponents like Zara, Shaka, Monty, Ragnar, etc. I think this is fair, as we have equal chances of which UU's we run into. As a downside, Sitting Bull shows up a lot to poison our water.

On topic of this necro, I don't think Boudica is that strong a leader. Charismatic is very nice but nothing else really excites me. I actually think Brennus is stronger because even with the synergy of Aggressive with the UU, I rank Spiritual as much better than Aggressive.

 

[GGracchus]

TMIT, do you start your war with only Chokus or do you wait for a good seige stack? I understand the principles involved in this strat, but I seem to always flub up the details. And by "always" I mean the 3 whole times I have tried it. lol

There are two ways to do it: the first involves a relatively early machinery bulb, generally with a DOW time of around 800-500 BC. You can wait for trebs, but this requires the engineering bulb and that DOW time for me(the one time I tried it on noble) was around 400-300 BC.

 

[Skallagrimson]

Agg is somewhat overrated as the C1 promotion only applies to melee and gunpowder units. Char gives its bonus to all units (a bonus that isn't limited to C1) and also boosts happy caps in the cities. With just a few barbarian battles you have a ready army and no real need for a barracks until the mid-game. GG healers are also built up to superhealer ability quicker.

 

[Ataxerxes]

Agg is somewhat overrated as the C1 promotion only applies to melee and gunpowder units. Char gives its bonus to all units (a bonus that isn't limited to C1) and also boosts happy caps in the cities. With just a few barbarian battles you have a ready army and no real need for a barracks until the mid-game. GG healers are also built up to superhealer ability quicker.

I agree completely with everyting except not using barracks until mid-game. Charismatic makes barracks more valuable because the extra XP's do more with Charismatic. Maybe it isn't quite as big a reason as it is with Aggressive's cheaper barracks but Charismatic barracks are pretty nice.

 

[bhavv]

I'm not sure I agree with that. Powerprats are quite unmatched for a while. Nigh instant access to CR II and easy access to raw power that tramples even AGG axes in the field is not to be underestimated. You do lack in econ, although with surplus and mass city capture gold you're not bad.

JC is more flexible however. Boudica is a (very powerful) one trick pony.

On normal speeds war chariot and immortal are probably better pure rush units, but on slower speeds these guys can basically double/triple rush with close to impunity.

Oddly I've been liking the PRO cho ko nu (you don't even need unrestricted to get to them) via machinery bulb. It's fairly easy to hit in the BCs with them with trades on, and pre longbow utility is absolutely crazy (although they do decently vs longbows also).

I meant that in any random map, I would prefer to have IMP + ORG as my leader traits over AGG + CHA for a one trick pony with Preats. If you do go to war, IMP gets you more great generals which you can settle for an XP boost, and ORG combined with the 50% extra settler production is a fantastic economic synergy.

JC is a lot better in most scenarios than Boudica is. Theres nothing stopping him from doing a Preatorian rush, and IMO he would do it better because his cities are up and running quicker, and he has a lot of gold saved with ORG.