Why am I forced to join the union?

[Sims2789]

I think there shouldn't be a choice. Although this will result in some unfair cases such as yours, it prevents employers from not hiring people that want to join a union, which would be widespread if unions became optional. One might say, "Then why not pass laws against employers who do such things?" That would be the best solution, however, the government would never do that, as they are in the pockets of the corporations, and even if they did do that, such a law would be hard to enforce, as it would be hard to prove that an employer didn't hire you because you said you'd join the union.

 

[Rhymes]

A solution could be to pass a legislation that takes away some of the power they have right now... but that could be tricky....

 

[Hakim]

Mandatory membership into any organization would not be so compatible with libertarianism, would it? There must be a libertarian here that knows about this stuff...

I'd hate mandatory union memberships, like any kind of mandatory memberships. I couldn't say whether it's good for the society/economy or not though, perhaps it is.

 

[IglooDame]

@newfangle and others: Yep, I'm aware that unions can get very annoying (especially ones in the public sector). But I was thinking that most libertarians somehow philosophically objected to them. Maybe I was wrong.

I don't object to unions, and in fact I think they're a necessary balance to the power of commercial interests. What I object to (and this in general might be what you're seeing) is government assistance to the unions in the form of protective legislation.

And in some circumstances the issue of making joining the union voluntary is the same dilemma as making social security voluntary - it doesn't work nearly as well when people are given the choice.

 

[Plexus]

I hate unions and I am convinced that they serve no purpose today other than to gouge employers. Unions ceased being useful once the government began ensuring fair wages and working hours.

And forcing employees to associate themselves with such a union is neigh on criminal.

 

[BasketCase]

I lost my first job because of a union.

I worked at company A, writing code for an inventory system for client company B. Company B was a storage and warehousing company that provided materials to company C. Company B dealt mostly in automobile parts, and company C happened to be General Motors.

When General Motors got hit with a strike, General Motors got idled and stopped ordering parts, so company B got idled. Company B began to lose money, and had to cancel their project with company A to avoid going bankrupt. So company A was no longer getting paid to do the project. So they had to lay somebody off. Last hired, first fired. That's where I came in.

Power To The Workers, they say. Yeah, sure. Power to some workers at the expense of others.

 

[WillJ]

Mandatory membership into any organization would not be so compatible with libertarianism, would it? There must be a libertarian here that knows about this stuff...

Well the thing is "mandatory" union membership isn't any more mandatory than any other conditions that an employee might have to agree to (the wage, etc.). People must join the union IF they want the job, but they don't have to get the job.

What I object to (and this in general might be what you're seeing) is government assistance to the unions in the form of protective legislation.

Well that I can understand.

 

[cgannon64]

Being forced to join a union to work limits freedom as much asthe old practice of firing anyone who works for the union, I imagine...

I also wonder: Since when can the government force you to get flood insurance? (A issue I first heard of today...)

 

[ummmm........]

I also wonder: Since when can the government force you to get flood insurance? (A issue I first heard of today...)

Heard where?

 

[cgannon64]

My grandparents were talking about how, since they are in a flood area in New Jersey, they are required to be surveyed and insured for floods.

Seemed looney to me.

 

[Godwynn]

To clear up some debate.

I hate unions. If the union decides to strike, then I must strike, even though I might have no problem with the reason the person is getting fired. So therefore, I lose my wages.

I believe, the company gave the job, they can take it away, for any reason, at any time, to whoever they want.

Oh yeah, and if you say they work for the employee, guess again. I learned last week about the new agreement the union and the company came up with for pay raises. I won't say the exact amount, but let's say in 6 months, after 10 hours of work, I'll be able to buy a can of Coca-Cola...

Thanks, but no thanks.

 

[sysyphus]

Well, I work for a good union. They work with the company and not against them. We understadn that we have shared interests as well as conflicting ones.


We had a strike last year, and I'm glad we did. When the company gives the management an 18% bonus and offers us 1% (less than the rate of inflation) one needs to take a stand, and unless we do it collectively, there's little hope.

You may hate unions, but the industrialised world is facing an increasing wealth gap. Does anybody think that's going to get better without unions? I think not.

 

[ummmm........]

My grandparents were talking about how, since they are in a flood area in New Jersey, they are required to be surveyed and insured for floods.

Seemed looney to me.

Hmmm. Are you certain it is the government that's forcing them? I know if they have a mortgage (which most people do) whoever gave them the money would want their collateral insured, but other than that, it's new to me as well.

 

[Sims2789]

A solution could be to pass a legislation that takes away some of the power they have right now... but that could be tricky....

As I said, this would never happen because of the corporations' massive influence in the government.

 

[classical_hero]

Thankfully we have freedom of association in Australia. But there are some unions that still wish they could have it that way. Mainly the CMFEU (Construction. Mining, Forestry, and Engineering Union,) is the worst. They are by far the most militant union in Western Australia. I think that many sitte must have unionism in the workplace. Fortunately unions are losing their members fast. What I do not want is for companies to go back to the way they were treating there workers before unions came around.

 

[aneeshm]

As such , I have no grouse with unions . It is only so long as they are benifiting both the employer and the employee that they should survive ( and in a free system , this is what happens ) . My grouse is with the extra-legal powers granted to them by the government . Any such powers violate the right to free association ( of both , the employers and the employees ) .

 

[BasketCase]

As I said, this would never happen because of the corporations' massive influence in the government.

If that was true, unions never would have gotten a foothold in our nation at all. Corporate influence would have been used to render them illegal and have them stomped out of existence.

 

[Sims2789]

If that was true, unions never would have gotten a foothold in our nation at all. Corporate influence would have been used to render them illegal and have them stomped out of existence.

The government back then knew that they had to make concessions to the liberals or else face a revolution. Today's government doesn't think that it has need to do that, as it can merely play the Jesus Card.

They might pass laws protecting people, then. But all an employer has to do is during the job interview say, "I would advise you not to join this union. *wink* *wink*." That's almost impossible to prove in court, no matter how good the laws are. But a few jobs should not be unionized.

 

[Stapel]

Beign forced to join a labour union is quite illegal here.
Why the heel would a company do that. Did the union make the force employees to join them? That's pretty screwed up.

Furthermore, BasketCase has a very good point. By protecting some employees (wages, jobs, whatever), others will be the victims. Shortsighted policies have always been linked to the traditonal socialism.
That doesn't mean unions are always crappy. Modern unions (not all, but most) realise what position companies can be in, and simply fight for a decent environment for employees.

We have a name for co-operating labour unions and companies: Polder model .

 

[Ethics]

Is Illinois a right to work state, or a union shop?

I know how ya feel though man. I've spent many a year working for Krogers in the past, and the socialist commie of a union bureaucrat actually forged my signature on documents forcing me into the Union (Texas is a right to work state).

If that was true, unions never would have gotten a foothold in our nation at all. Corporate influence would have been used to render them illegal and have them stomped out of existence.

Quite true. I believe the first time the government intervened in assistance of workers was under Teddy Roosevelt in a coal miners dispute? I think Upton Sinclair's criticism of the meat packing industry best sums up the worthlessness of the union then and now. Not to say that unionization in the earlier parts of the 20th century didn't have a massive impact on safety and job security in some industries (along with the grass root support of various women philanthropists, and typical American response to tragedy such as the Triangle House fire), but thats certainly different then the manipulative, corrupt beast we find today content to *prey* on the ignorant teenage worker of the minimum wage slavery.

I'm with ya brother, I've worn my back out slaving to that [insert explitive] Kroger Union (because by them, once theyve forged your signature you're a member for life!)