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Why are aircraft carriers so horribly expensive to maintain?

Discussion in 'Civ5 - General Discussions' started by hardcore_gamer, Oct 7, 2012.

  1. hardcore_gamer

    hardcore_gamer King

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    Seriously, they cost considerably if not much more to maintain then other ships like battleships and destroyers. Disbanding a few carriers has a very noticeable effect on your gold budget.

    How does it come that carriers are so expensive to maintain?
     
  2. Yzman

    Yzman Deity

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    I am not sure if anyone understands the unit maintainance formula. I know that stuff increases in cost as the game goes on, but I wasn't aware that some units cost more than others. I am also curious about this.
     
  3. The Little One

    The Little One Warlord

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    I've noticed recently that civilian units have at least double maintenance, probably more. Maybe aircraft carriers are counted as civilian since they can't actually attack
     
  4. Smokeybear

    Smokeybear Emperor

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    Probably because carriers are the single most costly ship to build and maintain, in any navy. Always have been. Look at the American fleet today- the carriers are huge, they need a crew of over 4,000 people, they carry hundreds of aircraft and all the associated flight personal and maintenance people... and on and on. I'm only guessing, but I'd bet the cost of maintaining one modern aircraft carrier is at least the cost of any 2-3 lesser vessels, probably more.
     
  5. Crow T Robot

    Crow T Robot Minister of Hedonism

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    The maint formula (discussed at length elsewhere) does not distinguish between workers and carriers. It does escalate exponentially as both the number of units and turn count increase. Before I changed the factors playing well after the victory/loss a unit could cost 22 GPT. There is (or was?) a bug where disbanding only gave credited for every other unit. So, if you disbanded a Cav and saw little or no change, then disband a carrier and saw a big change that would actually be the result of both.

    ((j n)//100 (1 + 2t m/1000))^(1 + 2t/(1000*d))

    J == INITIAL_GOLD_PER_UNIT_TIMES_100 (def == 50)
    N == Number of Turns
    D == UNIT_MAINT_EXPONENT_DIVISOR (def == 7)
    M == UNIT_MULTIPLIER (def == 8)
    N == Number of units

    It is difficult to verify the formula in the cost per turn game metric because SPs modify it a lot (8 free units for one; 33% reduction in one tree etc). I am not sure it is dead on, but comes very very close and allows you to model new J M D factors to allow playing indefinitely without enabling unlimited army sizes.
     
  6. smallfish

    smallfish Immortal

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    Because they are expensive platforms.
     
  7. adsin15

    adsin15 Warlord

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    I think the USA has less than 10 Aircraft Carriers in active service right now.

    They're god damn expensive.
     
  8. Socratatus

    Socratatus Emperor

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    As said, carriers are VERY expensive in real life. Have you even watched a TV program on US carriers, probably not, but they are like mini cities with holding thousands of personell that all have to be fed and watered. On top of that, a Carrier holds advanced weaponry of warfare that cost millions. They are also HUGE things. The Nimitz carrier is 93,500 tons!

    Other countries that have Carriers have only 1, including Russia. the British had 3, but had to decommison 2 to save money. The US has 11!

    Only the US can afford to have huge Carriers sailing about the seas.
     
  9. Yzman

    Yzman Deity

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    I understand from the topic that carriers are expensive in real life...but did we determine if they actually cost more to maintain than other units IN GAME? Crow said they weren't any different than workers, does that mean all units are the same?
     
  10. Crow T Robot

    Crow T Robot Minister of Hedonism

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    Yes, all units cost the same. Here is one of the more informative threads...The users Axxon and alpaca are the ones who finally cracked the cost and the source of the formula I posted.

    Its annoying and pretty unrealistic that a given unit will cost more on turn X+1 than it did on turn X; and I dont know why a game would be designed to discourage you from playing on and on, but there it is. It is pretty easy to modify to factors GlobalDefines.xml to keep the costs from escalating so steeply every turn very late in the game.
     
  11. Socratatus

    Socratatus Emperor

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    On a slight tangent, I decided to check how many carriers the rest of the world has and all combined they have 8. America has 11 carriers and the rest of the world has only 8 (that`s one per nation)??

    Wow. I had no idea the US were that strong. That`s almost as surprising as playing a game of Civ and having some Ships of the Line and suddenly bumping into 10 modern day battleships!
     
  12. Lunchmoney

    Lunchmoney Chieftain

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    Off topic, but I'm pretty sure there are more than 8 other nations in the world (unless you are playing on a small world :lol:).
     
  13. Louis XXIV

    Louis XXIV Le Roi Soleil

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    I think it was designed to keep your army size relatively the same, even when your economy got better.
     
  14. Pook

    Pook Bloviating

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    Having served on 4 aircraft carriers for 10 years of my life, I just laughed at the title of the original post.
     
  15. Pook

    Pook Bloviating

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    The number is 11 right now, will drop to 10 for a few years until Ford is commissioned.

    65 (Enterprise) will be decommissioned on 1 December 2012

    68 (Nimitz), 69 (Eisenhower), 70 (Vinson), 71 (T Roosevelt), 72 (Lincoln), 73 (Washington), 74 (Stennis), 75 (Truman), 76 (Reagan), 77 (GHW Bush)- active service

    78 (Ford) and 79 (Kennedy)- being built

    80- (unnamed)- in planning
     
  16. Jatta Pake

    Jatta Pake Warlord

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    I really hope we can get some mods or expansions that model the 21st century. One Iranian Sunburn missle could leave a US carrier smoldering at the bottom of the Arab (Persian) Gulf. The future will be smaller cheaper carriers with unmanned stealth hyper sonic fighters.
     
  17. Crow T Robot

    Crow T Robot Minister of Hedonism

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    Maybe, but carriers themselves are pretty defenseless, so they are generally escorted by DDGs and subs to prevent that from happening.

    @Louis: I think the formula was meant to limit how much a large empire could overwhelm a smaller one very late in the game. There is no need for a really large military with 1UPT, so even with policies that grant extra units per city and per pop and/or the 33% reduction in maint, it makes it hard to actually maintain one too much larger than the free units. Its a good idea, they just took it too far, IMO.
     
  18. Socratatus

    Socratatus Emperor

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    lol, I was in a bit of a rush, but I meant that only 8 other countries of the world have 1 carrier each. That`s pretty astonishing when you consider America has 11.

    I reckon Civ5 has at least this part of the game realistic as they are very expensive to maintain or everyone would have 11 !

    @ Pook and they`re making more? Are they expecting Aliens to invade?
     
  19. warlordtheft

    warlordtheft Chieftain

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    If you believe the hype. The Iranians can't even keep their old tom-cats flying, what makes you think that they would work?
     
  20. warlordtheft

    warlordtheft Chieftain

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    According to my wikki walk the following countries have carries
    Brazil, China, France, and Russia have a carrier. The US has 11.

    Britain, Thailand, India have one STOVL carrier. Italy and Spain have two. The US has 9 of these.

    Note STOVL carriers are not represented in game. Their aircomplement is typyically helicopters and a maybe a few jump-jets like the AV-8 (Harrier).
     

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