Why are humans able to override their instinct to reproduce?

[azzaman333]

Why is following instinct so smart?

If I followed mine, I'd probably be in jail or dead. Probably both.

Because, those able to overriade any instinct to reproduce are more likely the type of people you want to reproduce rather than the people who attempt to impregnate anyone as much as possible.

 

[ArneHD]

cause B.F. Skinner sucked

What's wrong with B.F. Skinner?

 

[El_Machinae]

i would add that for animals the instinctive part of reproduction is the sex urge and having offspring is the unintended consequence of that urge. when animals reproduce, it is not because they want offspring, its becuase they are horny as hell. even those people who don't want kids still act on the sex urge as it is much more primal and hard to resist. very few people remain abstinent in life. for most of those who do practice abstinence, it comes with great restraint.

so, to answer the op's question, i don't think there is anything instinctual about wanting offspring. what is instinctual is having sex and once the offspring are there, most animals have nurturing instincts.

Edit: looks like i am saying the same thing as bigdog

With the caveat that I don't like the word "instinct"* because of all the dualistic baggage it entails ...

A lot of animals, including humans, have a desire for nurturing the young those. The most extreme of these examples would be the dolls that children and gorillas like to play with. But many, many animals seem to derive pleasure from adopting younger animals.

Granted, there's some instinct there too. But there's also a cognitive desire to have and care for the young. We see this most in the 'higher' animals, of course - or at least that's where we recognise it most easily.

*Because there are also neural Fixed Action Patterns that are genetically determined and are better described as instincts.

 

[Masquerouge]

Note that interestingly, according to some, a lot of religions are telling you to reproduce.

 

[El_Machinae]

Note that interestingly, according to some, a lot of religions are telling you to reproduce.

Catholicism, Islam, Racist Nationalism ...

 

[Masquerouge]

Catholicism, Islam, Racist Nationalism ...

Judaism too? I thought the "go forth and populate the Earth" was in OT.

But I find it interesting that something so unnatural as religion can condone very animalistic behaviors

 

[Tank_Guy#3]

Well he have the capacity for abstract thought, and the ability to reflect on our biological functions from multiple perspectives. Although in general the instinct to reproduce remains strong, cultural values and pressures have become an even larger force in determining patterns of reproduction.

Though I really don't want this to turn into a religion bashing thread, but religion adds a major stipulation to it as well. NO SEX BEFORE MARRIAGE. They seem to hit hard on that, and from what I've seen are unwavering. Which could convince some.

 

[Leonel]

The government puts chemicals in the food supply!

 

[Ayatollah So]

the reproductive need is in the sex drive not to have children.

That sounds like an attempt to say what bigdog said better:

so why does sex feel good? it feels good so you do it and do it often therfore nature is tricking us into sex so that we reproduce

And Photithe says best:

i would add that for animals the instinctive part of reproduction is the sex urge and having offspring is the unintended consequence of that urge. [...]

so, to answer the op's question, i don't think there is anything instinctual about wanting offspring. what is instinctual is having sex and once the offspring are there, most animals have nurturing instincts.

Edit: looks like i am saying the same thing as bigdog

Bingo. Sex and nurturing are instinctive - reproduction is the natural consequence in the environment in which we evolved. That environment did not include condoms, or even the rhythym method.

 

[jimbob27]

I think the OP is asking the wrong question...

Most species have inbuilt population control mechanisms, that kick in when competition for space or food gets too great. The mechanisms vary from species to species..... Some species do it through homosexuality, some will become infertile when in a large group, or whilst other females have young.

I think the better question is why don't humans appear to have such a control, or what have we done to disable it?

Just look at Africa.... the competition for food and space (somewhere with access to water) is huge.... they're suffering a continent-wide AIDS plague, and yet they're STILL reproducing like there's no tomorrow.

 

[Eran of Arcadia]

Do those species really have built-in controls, or is it always external factors, like disease, starvation, and predation? I can't think of any examples.

 

[Elrohir]

I agree with El_Machinae and Atlas - because we're capable of complex abstract thought, we can think up more complicated goals and priorities than animals can. Animals priorities are primarily dictated by instinct, and they generally can't rearrange them based on what they desire. A man can think "Well, maybe it isn't economical for me to have children. I'd rather retire early. And I haven't actaully found a woman I'd be comfortable raising a kid with. So maybe not." A monkey can't. Because we're capable of abstract thought and have free will, we can choose what to do, and in some circumstances that means not having kids.

Note: I'm not sure if I want kids myself, so this is a relevant topic.

Judaism too? I thought the "go forth and populate the Earth" was in OT.

But I find it interesting that something so unnatural as religion can condone very animalistic behaviors

Animalistic? Makes it sound so bad. I guess eating food is animalistic too, since animals do it. And pooping. We're such beasts!

 

[Murky]

Two words, "Child Support."

 

[ArneHD]

The government puts chemicals in the food supply!

And what is wrong with chemicals in the food supply? You are suffering from chemophobia, my friend!

 

[Eran of Arcadia]

@elrohir: I don't know, according to the Bible it is unlawful to poop on Saturdays.

 

[Elrohir]

@elrohir: I don't know, according to the Bible it is unlawful to poop on Saturdays.

Nah, you just have to flush afterwards.

 

[Eran of Arcadia]

No, I mean the maximum allowable walking distance is less than the distance the latrine has to be from camp. There is of course an excellent chance I am wrong about this.

 

[Murky]

@elrohir: I don't know, according to the Bible it is unlawful to poop on Saturdays.

According to the Bible it was once allowed to have slaves and commit genocide too.

 

[Elrohir]

No, I mean the maximum allowable walking distance is less than the distance the latrine has to be from camp. There is of course an excellent chance I am wrong about this.

*Shrugs* I don't remember. When I read Dueteronomy/Numbers/Leviticus, I wasn't memorizing the the allowed distance between the camp and the latrine.

 

[jimbob27]

Do those species really have built-in controls, or is it always external factors, like disease, starvation, and predation? I can't think of any examples.

It's kind of on the edge of understanding..... but many many speices appear to have them, although we haven't figured out how many of them work. Disease starvation are all contributing factors, but many species have other methods to cope.

For examples..... Many speices of fish and reptile are known to change sex in reaction to differing levels of food, and changes in the population ratio. Clown fish are a good example..... if there isn't much food to go around, then a lot of the females will become male.

It tests with laboratory mice, when they are overcrowded, the smell of mouse urine triggers the females to become infertle or even miscarry. Many other mammals operate in similar ways.

Many species of monkey and are shown to become homosexual when overcrowed. There are tons of different examples.