Why are so many people in this country so ignorant?

[Traitorfish]

Besides calling evolution "Darwinism" (like scientists all bow five times a day towards England or something)...

Actually, "Darwinism" is a real term, they just misuse it; it refers particularly to the theory and study of Darwinian Evolution, rather than to either evolution itself, or to modern Evolutionary synthesis (which, crucially, incorporates Mendelian genetics), as the fundies seem to think.

"Evolutionism", though, is just plain old bullcrap.

 

[Brian Shanahan]

You know this thread made me think of the Michael Jefferson episode of Southpark: "That's ignorant. You're all ignorant" in the whiney voice they gave the Jacko substitute.

 

[Tacitusitis]

I've seen enough of american society to form my own quiet opinion of it, i'l be honest with you i find it harsh and it troubles me, i see americans working incredibly hard to stay afloat, often holding down two jobs just to make ends meet with no financial safety net under them and almost no time for family let alone history classes, my aunt is one of them.

Sometimes they are ill and in pain with no health insurance but they work anyway because they have to, how many of us could learn things under those conditions? and can we really blame the average american if he or she is slightly sketchy on some facts others would consider essential?

I posted an article here a while ago about Remote Area Medical. It's a group that parachutes doctors into places like Guyana and Haiti to give people free medical care.

Well nowadays the majority of the work they do is inside the States. For example Wise County, Virginia, which is right on the border with West Virginia deep in the heart of Appalachia.

These people don't live in the same America as the vast majority of people posting in this thread. They live in an America where birth fatalities, high school graduation rates, retirement ages, incidence of diabetes and lung cancer, all bear no resemblance to "America the world's #1 nation."

For a good percentage of the people who came to get free healthcare, they have not seen a clinic doctor in DECADES. All the medical attention they get is either informal or charity.

Here's where your mind is blown: the voters of Wise County cast their ballots 63% for John McCain.

And if you make a map of places where Obama got a smaller percent of the vote than Kerry, here's what you get. Blue areas are where Obama got a higher % of the vote than Kerry; red areas are where he underperformed Kerry.

These same voters who lined up outside a tent to get 20 fillings, swung 10% against Obama because... well, we all know why

 

[Askthepizzaguy]

Church

If Church were the cause, then all atheists would lack ignorance.

I'm as eager to knock the church as you are, because I find so much of it disagreeable, but to be fair, ignorance happened before churches did.

 

[metatron]

Sometimes they are ill and in pain with no health insurance but they work anyway because they have to, how many of us could learn things under those conditions? and can we really blame the average american if he or she is slightly sketchy on some facts others would consider essential?

Well, some of them.
Some others are just rednecked subsidy and defense spending moochers, who like to complain about the people that finance their behinds.

I listened to a conversation about a guy who worked for the Missouri state capitol and took a call from an individual who claimed the space landing had been faked and we'd never been into space. The capital employee asked if the individual had satellite TV and he stated he did. The employee asked if we've never been into space, then how do you have satellite TV?

I allways though the core argument of the moon landing denyers (or how those people are called) was that there is some layer in the upper atmosphere with some sort of radiation that would kill any human passing it. They usually have no issue with satelites.

The difference is, the Roman Empire was explicitly ruled by Romans, from Rome, while the British state granted nor grants no such explicit privilege to the English. What you suggest is comparable to claiming that Germany is still ruled by Prussia because the government is based in Berlin.

Actually, it's more like calling Germany "Prussia". Yes, we can probably infer from context what you meant, but it's still sloppy, archaic and simplistic.

Erm, we happened to have some reform, and we may be rather tolerant of the Swabians and their speech impediment as well as the Rhenians and Bavarians indulging in their culture of drug abuse and their medieval creed. None the less:
[cartmanvoice]This is Prussia, damnit![/cartmanvoice]

I doubt America has all that many more ignorant people than any other nation. They simply get more airtime. Qualities perhaps associated with ignorance are prized more highly than elsewhere around the world, so people are probably much more open about their ignorance. Maybe.

As i said in the other thread: I don't believe Americans are any more stupid than Europeans. Maybe there is more variance but that's it. The thing that Europeans are appaled by when they call Americans stupid is the lack of sensible public discourse.
Apparently Americans are very fond of relativism.
I.e. an unemployed plumbers opinion on economic theory is as relevant as a senators, some cracy substitute teachers is as relevant as those of biologists and psychologists.
Well, technically that's not a bad thing. None the less that seems to be in dire need of some perspective.

 

[Arakhor]

The term The United Kingdom of Great Briton would be accurate for that time.

The United Kingdom of Great Britain and Ireland existed between 1801 to 1927. 1707 was the Act of Union between England and Scotland.

And classical hero has pretty much refuted it a thousand times

Yet no one ever comes to my creationism thread to talk about it. Anyone would think they were deliberately avoiding me.

I haven't proven creationism, but I have proven my own existence.

A computer that has passed the Turing test might say that. All you've proven is that you can type English into a web forum submit box and apparently hold a conversation. I have no more proof of your existence than I do in, say, that of Cutlass'.

 

[Clement]

Have a read of this book if you feel like it and if you have the time, and see what you think of it.

Nickel and Dimed - by Barbara Ehrenreich.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nickel_and_Dimed

 

[Whiskey_Lord]

I have read that book, years ago. All I remember is her complaining about how arrogant and gullible religious people are. I didn't really get anything out of it.

 

[Clement]

I have read that book, years ago. All I remember is her complaining about how arrogant and gullible religious people are. I didn't really get anything out of it.

It's been a while since i read it too and i cannot recall that part, i'm a theist myself and i don't remember being offended by it, what i do remember was my shock at the difficulties faced by the hardworking man/woman in America.

 

[Whiskey_Lord]

A lot of people could write volumes on that subject. The service industry is like purgatory for anyone with half a brain.

 

[Clement]

A lot of people could write volumes on that subject. The service industry is like purgatory for anyone with half a brain.

It's the early morning hours pacing up and down the empty corridors of a slumbering hotel looking for discarded trays and rubbish to pick up that are the worst in my experience, there's always a silver lining though no matter how small, you get a lot of time to think.

You strike true with that post whiskey that's for sure.

 

[Brian Shanahan]

I have read that book, years ago. All I remember is her complaining about how arrogant and gullible religious people are. I didn't really get anything out of it.

Considering that Ms Ehrenreich comes across, well to me at least, as being pretty religious herself it probably wasn't. I know she has written stuff thats pretty hard on certain outwardly pious people, but that is more along the lines of "you should act christian a lot more than you appear christian"

 

[Holycannoli]

However when the theory boils down to "however science figures out it happened, is how it happened, but God was responsible," it's clear that it's a psychological defense mechanism to avoid admitting that God is not needed to explain natural history.

No, your idea of that being a psychological defense mechanism is itself a psychological defense mechanism to avoid admitting that God had a part in creation and we are now discovering how He did what He did. Atheists use it to help reinforce their false belief that God doesn't exist.

God is needed to explain natural history. The universe itself cannot be explained without Him, let alone life.

 

[Behind The Mask]

No, your idea of that being a psychological defense mechanism is itself a psychological defense mechanism to avoid admitting that God had a part in creation and we are now discovering how He did what He did. Atheists use it to help reinforce their false belief that God doesn't exist.

God is needed to explain natural history. The universe itself cannot be explained without Him, let alone life.

Now that is a psycological defence mechanism

 

[Traitorfish]

No, your idea of that being a psychological defense mechanism is itself a psychological defense mechanism to avoid admitting that God had a part in creation and we are now discovering how He did what He did. Atheists use it to help reinforce their false belief that God doesn't exist.

God is needed to explain natural history. The universe itself cannot be explained without Him, let alone life.

You're sort of playing into his hands here. Not making yourself look good.

Although, if I may just pluck one particular point out...

...belief that God doesn't exist...

Do you "believe" that Zeus doesn't exist? That Odin doesn't exist? That Ra, Cernunnos and Quetzalcoatl do not exist? I assume not. Then why does it take such a grand leap of faith to draw a line through the last name on the list?

 

[Tee Kay]

God is needed to explain natural history. The universe itself cannot be explained without Him, let alone life.

So, God is chemistry?

 

[Tacitusitis]

Now that is a psycological defence mechanism

You're sort of playing into his hands here. Not making yourself look good.

 

[Whiskey_Lord]

Based on my own recent experience, I don't buy that people who believe in evolution/big bang etc. are using it as an excuse not to believe. Maybe some are, but certainly not me. I have found such scientific explanations to be plausible enough to cause me to have grave doubts. Do you think I like having doubt? I would much rather have 'faith like a child,' because my life had a higher purpose and meaning when I did. I feel like the only way to go back is to be intellectually dishonest with myself though. Anyway, count me as one person not looking for excuses to disbelieve.

 

[Ayatollah So]

American idiots just get more attention that's all... You're on the showcase in front of the world after all. "We know everything about you, you don't know anything about us." It's that simple.

That would be my leading hypothesis too. But...

On topic, is there any evidence that Americans are much more ignorant on most issues than an equivalent sample of, say, Australians or Japanese? I'd be interested in comparisons with other First World countries that don't immediately border a bunch of other countries.

Evidence would be nice. Now, which of us is going to get off his or her butt and dig some up?

 

[Traitorfish]

America has elected openly Creationist presidents as recently as 2004.

Did I win?