Why are there few females with Aspergers?

[Narz]

I specifically pointed out in my post that life expectency dropped after the advent of agriculture.

I know. I was just making a point that just because we're living longer with low infant mortality and without most infectous diseases & had fix broken bones, swollen apendixes & keep geriatrics alive for many additonal years doesn't have anything to do with whether or not the average adult is healthier. Our lifestyles offer some benefits & some drawbacks. We should appreciate the benefits & try to fix the drawbacks.

We should be killing buffalo instead of farming beans.

We already killed most of the buffalo.

We can't go back to that lifestyle now, well not without losing 99% of the world's population or so & even then, much of the Earth is so polluted (fresh water sources being the first thing to spring to mind) even that might be a high estimate. Of course some anarcho-primitivists want that but it's undesirable & unrealistic.

Basically you completely missed my points of disagreement, which, considering our recent exchange from Bast's thread, is sort of surprising. I'm slower to dismiss ADD, sure, but I don't care about that. What pisses me off is when you talk smack on psychiatry like an authority, when you're just a regular guy that had some experience and did some research. Guess what, all of us have had some experience and done some research. I didn't get a Tom Cruise diploma for mine, neither did aug or phil or aegis.

I can't talk smack about psychiatry? 99% of the threads on here are full of people talking smack about things they know far less about than I do about psychiatry (climate science, the government, the military, Iraq, etc.)

Depression and bipolar as disorders are not temporary. As a symptom, sure, depression can be temporary, but that's little-d emo crap, not big-D SSRI/MAOI(/whatever) material.

I take offense to that.

I suffered severe chronic depression for seven years (from 13-20). Really bad episodes where I could not look people in the eyes, goto school, I'd hide in bed, even the idea of a conversation with someone would be terrifying. My second-to-last episode at 18 lasted three months and, as I thought it would never end I decided to kill myself. Fortunately, Lithium isn't particularly lethal, I got lucky, had I been on almost any other drug (at 10x of a two-week supply, funny how pharmacists don't notice an extra 0) I'd be history.

Big-D Depression doesn't get cured, it just gets managed;

Sorry, that's your opinion and it's wrong. A universal claims like that is wrong if just one person is an exception. Why are you so attached to this "incurable" label?

I know at least one person who claims to have dealt with Depression but readily admits experiencing pretty solid day-to-day depression. Surely you do too.

Of course. Many, many people suffer low-key depression day to day. I do. But I haven't suffered severe depression in eight & a half years & "god willing" I never will again. My brain is different, I'm different, end of story.

Why are you trying to invalidate my experience?

You're basically saying I'm a phony & that pisses me off because I know very well what severe, severe depression is like & you & downtown & others are literally saying, "No, see you must be lying because real depression doesn't get cured!". Sorry, in my experience that's not true. Maybe I'll get really bad someday & go shoot myself but that still doesn't invalidate what I'm saying now, which is that the "chronic" is gone, dissolved after seven years with no hope, thru self-reflection, a few changes in my life & thinking & a lot of dumb luck (two very supportive women in my life, friends I've met, work I've done, SS payments to keep my afloat & even this & other Internet communities).

You can't say "no, real depression doesn't get cured" without provoking a response from me because it's an insult to me personally.

You may not be telling anyone "your challenges are not real" but you're very quick to pin the causes down somewhere on the victim.

Just had to respond to this part too because it's the obvious trigger for all the emotive misdirected bitterness aimed my way.

If I state on the Internet that supplementing with Selenium decreases prostate cancer risk by 28% and raising a baby/child near a coal plant increases their risk of autism by 14% am I saying "hey a$$hole, if you're got prostate cancer or a messed up kid it's your fault!"? No, I'm not. Don't like my approach? Tough beans? I'm not "PC" and anyone who knows me knows I'm pretty goddamn compassionate, caring individual.

What you're saying is that my personal experience, my very existence is an insult to people who haven't been able to overcome their difficulties. It's like ****ing crucifying Lance Armstrong cause he recovered from cancer & your brother Larry died of it.

Maybe you don't mean to, but what is heard matters, not what is said. You sound like a slightly less ruthless, slightly more apologetic Scientologist. I'm saying this because I think your heart's in the right place but your voice isn't quite in line with it, and so I'm sick of griping about this crap with you. Especially since we agree in a lot of places.

Sorry Lucy but I don't know what you want me to say. If I say I agree with 100% I would be lying. We have a fundamental difference. You believe telling people there is a chance of recovery when it can not be proven that there is is abusive. I believe telling people there is NO chance of recovery when it can not be proven that there is is abusive. You think it's wrong to give people hope where there is a strong possibility that hope will be false. I can't agree with that approach, sorry, less still with the idea of defaming those who claim they have personal experience otherwise. Every case is different, depression (and mental illness) isn't like a stupid Internet debate & who's right or wrong, it's about someone's life. There are ways to give someone hope without making them feel inferior/inadequate if they can't meet their own ideals/expectations for themselves. I fail every single day on a regular basis, but I succeed in tiny little ways everyday too. It's not "OMG, depression is all the victim's fault" vs. "OMG, depression is just a random thing that happens to certain people for no reason & there's no way to ever prevent it", it's obviously a spectrum.

BTW,to summerize my verbosely expressed views on ADD, I will put it like this :

• A mental disease is a maladaption to one's environment.
• The symptoms of ADD dor not represent a maladaption to humanity's ancestral environment. The world should be better tailored to suit the needs of these kids rather than the healthy kids being drugged &/or "behaviorally modified" to fit the system.
• Because ADD is not a maladaption to one's environment it is not a valid "disease".

[/ADDtangent] (hopefully)

 

[philippe]

Bushman life-expectancy : 54.1
US life-expectancy in 1900 : 47

Source for US

Link to Bushman Source Here

your source is a not peer reviewed "thesis" between "collapse is inevitable" and "art is not only of civilization.

already comments have proven that the figures of the "thesis" is skewed. For starters, it doesn't count infant mortality for the tribe but it does for the USA.

skewed data and a clear bias and not peer-reviewed. your source is rubbish.
nice going,

 

[Zelig]

Bushman life-expectancy : 54.1
US life-expectancy in 1900 : 47

Source for US

Link to Bushman Source Here

Those are in no way comparing the same statistic, the 54.1 figure is the life expectency of someone at age 15. If you ignore child mortality, the life expectency of any population increases, more so in populations with higher infant mortality.

I know. I was just making a point that just because we're living longer with low infant mortality and without most infectous diseases & had fix broken bones, swollen apendixes & keep geriatrics alive for many additonal years doesn't have anything to do with whether or not the average adult is healthier. Our lifestyles offer some benefits & some drawbacks. We should appreciate the benefits & try to fix the drawbacks.

And my point was that killing and eating animals is more healthy than farming.

 

[Narz]

your source is a not peer reviewed "thesis" between "collapse is inevitable" and "art is not only of civilization.

already comments have proven that the figures of the "thesis" is skewed. For starters, it doesn't count infant mortality for the tribe but it does for the USA.

Yeah, I misread, someone I know just sent me that link & I didn't read it throughly enough. Anyway, this is tangential.

skewed data and a clear bias and not peer-reviewed. your source is rubbish.
nice going,

You're right. Don't trip on the way out.

And my point was that killing and eating animals is more healthy than farming.

Yeah, if you're population density is one person per square mile. In modern civilization a meat based diet is environmentally disastrous since, to feed large populations, you have grow grain and THEN feed to to the food animals losing energy all along the path.

 

[philippe]

Yeah, I misread, someone I know just sent me that link & I didn't read it throughly enough. Anyway, this is tangential.
You're right. Don't trip on the way out.

bweh, don't bring such stuff to back up your claims next time.

or you know, actually watch the series "tribe" and stop thinking less in "noblesse sauvage".

 

[Zelig]

Yeah, if you're population density is one person per square mile. In modern civilization a meat based diet is environmentally disastrous since, to feed large populations, you have grow grain and THEN feed to to the food animals losing energy all along the path.

Doesn't mean it isn't healthier for the eatin'.

 

[Narz]

bweh, don't bring such stuff to back up your claims next time.

I won't. I had a better source but I couldn't find it so I just went with that one.

or you know, actually watch the series "tribe" and stop thinking less in "noblesse sauvage".

Great series. I've watched almost every episode (except some of season 3 I couldn't find).

By the way, can't you just accept "I was mistaken" gracefully?

Doesn't mean it isn't healthier for the eatin'.

Better to eat grain than grain fed animals.

It's a debate I'm not going to have but most of the data I've seen seems to suggest a vegetable based (not necessarily vegetarian) diet is superior. The China study for one. Certainly junk food vegetarianism isn't doing anyone any good & free range meats are going to be far more health-giving than factory farmed ones. Always a bunch of meat vs. veg debates at another forum I post it, here's the latest one.

 

[philippe]

By the way, can't you just accept "I was mistaken" gracefully?

This is the most unkindest cut of all.

 

[LucyDuke]

I can't talk smack about psychiatry? 99% of the threads on here are full of people talking smack about things they know far less about than I do about psychiatry (climate science, the government, the military, Iraq, etc.)

I didn't and won't say you can't. You're totally right, nearly everybody on this forum spouts off about crap they don't know about, myself included. And what happens? People get pissed off about some of it. Somebody gets pissed if you argue for global warming, somebody else gets pissed if you posture against American military superiority, I get pissed if you call psychiatry a sham. You can say whatever you want, but, sorry, if it's the way you tend to about this, I'm going to reply probably angrily.

I take offense to that.

I suffered severe chronic depression for seven years (from 13-20). Really bad episodes where I could not look people in the eyes, goto school, I'd hide in bed, even the idea of a conversation with someone would be terrifying. My second-to-last episode at 18 lasted three months and, as I thought it would never end I decided to kill myself. Fortunately, Lithium isn't particularly lethal, I got lucky, had I been on almost any other drug (at 10x of a two-week supply, funny how pharmacists don't notice an extra 0) I'd be history.

Sorry, that's your opinion and it's wrong. A universal claims like that is wrong if just one person is an exception. Why are you so attached to this "incurable" label?

I don't think you're "cured", and I don't care if that offends you. I think you're managing very well. I probably worded my comment a little harshly, but so it goes.

Ever heard the phrase "recovering alcoholic"?

Of course. Many, many people suffer low-key depression day to day. I do. But I haven't suffered severe depression in eight & a half years & "god willing" I never will again. My brain is different, I'm different, end of story.

Why are you trying to invalidate my experience?

You're basically saying I'm a phony & that pisses me off because I know very well what severe, severe depression is like & you & downtown & others are literally saying, "No, see you must be lying because real depression doesn't get cured!". Sorry, in my experience that's not true. Maybe I'll get really bad someday & go shoot myself but that still doesn't invalidate what I'm saying now, which is that the "chronic" is gone, dissolved after seven years with no hope, thru self-reflection, a few changes in my life & thinking & a lot of dumb luck (two very supportive women in my life, friends I've met, work I've done, SS payments to keep my afloat & even this & other Internet communities).

You can't say "no, real depression doesn't get cured" without provoking a response from me because it's an insult to me personally.

I'm not trying to invalidate your experience, I'm saying that I think you're mistaken in categorizing it. Not calling you a phony, just calling you wrong. I know from previous conversations that you don't like the idea of calling something incurable because you think it saps hope from the afflicted, but it needn't. Incurable does not mean unmanageable. I honestly believe that if you stopped taking your insulin, you'd get sick again, but that's not a problem so long as you keep taking your insulin. Maybe I'm wrong, and it'd be awesome if I were wrong.

Just had to respond to this part too because it's the obvious trigger for all the emotive misdirected bitterness aimed my way.

If I state on the Internet that supplementing with Selenium decreases prostate cancer risk by 28% and raising a baby/child near a coal plant increases their risk of autism by 14% am I saying "hey a$$hole, if you're got prostate cancer or a messed up kid it's your fault!"? No, I'm not. Don't like my approach? Tough beans? I'm not "PC" and anyone who knows me knows I'm pretty goddamn compassionate, caring individual.

I apologize for that particular comment. I was angry and it was unfair.

What you're saying is that my personal experience, my very existence is an insult to people who haven't been able to overcome their difficulties. It's like ****ing crucifying Lance Armstrong cause he recovered from cancer & your brother Larry died of it.

Not at all. Just the way you're recounting it.

Sorry Lucy but I don't know what you want me to say. If I say I agree with 100% I would be lying. We have a fundamental difference. You believe telling people there is a chance of recovery when it can not be proven that there is is abusive. I believe telling people there is NO chance of recovery when it can not be proven that there is is abusive. You think it's wrong to give people hope where there is a strong possibility that hope will be false. I can't agree with that approach, sorry, less still with the idea of defaming those who claim they have personal experience otherwise. Every case is different, depression (and mental illness) isn't like a stupid Internet debate & who's right or wrong, it's about someone's life. There are ways to give someone hope without making them feel inferior/inadequate if they can't meet their own ideals/expectations for themselves. I fail every single day on a regular basis, but I succeed in tiny little ways everyday too. It's not "OMG, depression is all the victim's fault" vs. "OMG, depression is just a random thing that happens to certain people for no reason & there's no way to ever prevent it", it's obviously a spectrum.

I'm not opposed to giving people hope, I'm opposed to giving people false hope. I think it's wonderful to hope for good management, even "recovery", but I think it's reckless to expect a cure, at least currently.

Re: bolded - example?

BTW,to summerize my verbosely expressed views on ADD, I will put it like this :

• A mental disease is a maladaption to one's environment.
• The symptoms of ADD dor not represent a maladaption to humanity's ancestral environment. The world should be better tailored to suit the needs of these kids rather than the healthy kids being drugged &/or "behaviorally modified" to fit the system.
• Because ADD is not a maladaption to one's environment it is not a valid "disease".

[/ADDtangent] (hopefully)

I agree that it is overdiagnosed. I do not agree that zero diagnoses are valid or that strongly expressed symptoms do not constitute a (whatever we want to call the type of affliction).

 

[Narz]

I didn't and won't say you can't. You're totally right, nearly everybody on this forum spouts off about crap they don't know about, myself included. And what happens? People get pissed off about some of it. Somebody gets pissed if you argue for global warming, somebody else gets pissed if you posture against American military superiority, I get pissed if you call psychiatry a sham. You can say whatever you want, but, sorry, if it's the way you tend to about this, I'm going to reply probably angrily.

Que sera sera.

I don't think you're "cured", and I don't care if that offends you.

Ok. It doesn't really offend me when you put it like that.

I think you're managing very well.

Somedays, yes, somedays no, overall I think I'm doing pretty well under the circumstances.

I probably worded my comment a little harshly, but so it goes.

So it goes.

Ever heard the phrase "recovering alcoholic"?

Yes. I also believe there is such thing as a completely recovered alcoholic. Plenty of people stay mired in either the addiction or the craving and other people don't. It's not an insult to those who can never break out of it to acknowledge there are those that can. This goes for every addiction from gambling to eating disorders to alcoholism to heroin addiction.

I'm not trying to invalidate your experience, I'm saying that I think you're mistaken in categorizing it. Not calling you a phony,

I know, that was downtown.

just calling you wrong. I know from previous conversations that you don't like the idea of calling something incurable because you think it saps hope from the afflicted, but it needn't. Incurable does not mean unmanageable. I honestly believe that if you stopped taking your insulin, you'd get sick again, but that's not a problem so long as you keep taking your insulin. Maybe I'm wrong, and it'd be awesome if I were wrong.

I just don't think doctors or anyone else has the right to play God and tell someone they're incurable. That should say "the odds are not in your favor" or even, "recovery is a thousand to one spot" but not this arrogant "Your brain disorder is guarenteed 100% with you forever". It's like a doctor telling someone they have three-months to live, this is a huge shock to the system & many people get so depressed they don't even make it that long. A rare few mentally fight the prediction & live beyond that date. Many mentally fight the prediction & die anyway but those with the fighting spirit (who aren't afraid to say "thanks for the lifestyle/drug/will preparation suggestions but f*** that diagnosis"). Will to live is a big oart of determining who lives & who dies. But not everyone (least of all those suffering a severe mental illness) has that willpower & telling someone they're absolutely stuck in a disservice. Tell them the truth if you don't believe they can do more than mitigate damage but don't give them objective label you can't back up.

I apologize for that particular comment. I was angry and it was unfair.

Thank you! I really don't blame the victim. Ever. I've known too many people who've suffered to waste any time on "blame". We've got it rough, all of us & I always remember that (even when fighting off trolls) and try not to be as much of a jerk as I sometimes am tempted to be in certain circumstances. We're born into a lot of suffering & more comes year after year (along with some sweetness), under the circumstances I'd say most people are doing pretty damn well and even the ones (like the "hikikomori" in the other thread I posted & social deviants) who are easy to judge still deserve some compassion.

Not at all. Just the way you're recounting it.

Maybe.

I'm not opposed to giving people hope, I'm opposed to giving people false hope. I think it's wonderful to hope for good management, even "recovery", but I think it's reckless to expect a cure, at least currently.

Re: bolded - example?

This may sound corny but I don't think hope is ever reckless. The only time hope is reckless is if you pin all your emotions on it & don't take action in the present because you're waiting for the storm to clear (which it may never) in the future.

I do get some comfort myself from the phrase "this too shall pass". I just remember the "next" may be just as bad or worse if I rest on my laurels (not that I have many laurels right now anyway ). Change is inevitable. Whether it is for better or worse is partially up to us & partially up to fate but the main point of power, most of the time, rests within us. In really hard times when it feels like everything & everyone is beyond my control it helps me to focus on the little things I do have control over - how I'm sitting, how I'm breathing, whatever. I may not be able to stop myself from doing certain things (or leaving certain things left undone) but I try to appreciate the small victories

Spoiler :

(just don't tell jerks on the Internet about them cause they'll be like "OMG, guys, Narz told me he was actually happy with himself for calling up this school & getting a $30/hr job five days a week, ahahaha, he sucks !".

It sounds trivial but it helps me get by.

I agree that it is overdiagnosed. I do not agree that zero diagnoses are valid or that strongly expressed symptoms do not constitute a (whatever we want to call the type of affliction).

I don't believe ADD to be an "affliction" anymore than homosexuality. The symptoms of ADD are simply character traits our society cannot handle just as society could (and in many ways still can't) handle same-sex attraction. I'd be willing to bet that DaVinci, Einstein, Edison and many of the other past greats from history would have been labelled with it.

Do individuals exist who exhibit symptoms of ADD. Certainly. Just like guys who want to do guys (and gals, gals) exist. Are either "diseases"? No.

 

[LucyDuke]

Yes. I also believe there is such thing as a completely recovered alcoholic.

I don't know that there's not, but I'm not prepared to let the guard down.

I just don't think doctors or anyone else has the right to play God and tell someone they're incurable. That should say "the odds are not in your favor" or even, "recovery is a thousand to one spot" but not this arrogant "Your brain disorder is guarenteed 100% with you forever". It's like a doctor telling someone they have three-months to live, this is a huge shock to the system & many people get so depressed they don't even make it that long. A rare few mentally fight the prediction & live beyond that date. Many mentally fight the prediction & die anyway but those with the fighting spirit (who aren't afraid to say "thanks for the lifestyle/drug/will preparation suggestions but f*** that diagnosis"). Will to live is a big oart of determining who lives & who dies. But not everyone (least of all those suffering a severe mental illness) has that willpower & telling someone they're absolutely stuck in a disservice. Tell them the truth if you don't believe they can do more than mitigate damage but don't give them objective label you can't back up.

It's not so much "you're incurable" as it is "don't count on it". If I say "incurable" I'm overstepping my own certainty, but "probably incurable but it's possible to lead a relatively normal life with proper treatment and a dash of luck" is not a death sentence.

Anyway, I'm tired of this, it's depressing, see you next time.

 

[Narz]

May not be a next time, I'm a bit tired of it too. Be well LucyDuke.

 

[JRD]

removed

 

[Narz]

As the daughter of two teachers

Such claims require pictorial proof on this forum.

Post here .

 

[silver 2039]

Such claims require pictorial proof on this forum.

Post here .

Don't be fooled Narz. Everyone knows there are no women in Scotland.

 

[Dachs]

Don't be fooled Narz. Everyone knows there are no women in Scotland.

Uh, Lady Macbeth?