Why are we here?

Stapel said:
There is a difference between 'The Cause' and 'The Reason'.

Which of them do you mean?

Both a Cause and a Reason would imply there is "something" outside the object at hand (the universe) on which to draw a conclusion of some sort. To get a consistent answer to any of the two you would have to basically have "the knowledge of God" (Is this where you're heading, FL2?).
 
ybbor said:
the creation of all life on this planet.

enough?

99,99999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999[... and on for 3 pages]9% of all species that every existed on this planet evolved. None were ever created.


you are wrong. sorry!
 
Why not say 100%?
 
Three possible "why" dialogues:
1. Why A? Because B. Why B? Because C. Why C? Because A. (circularity)
2. ... Why C? Because D. Why D? ... etc., ad infinitum. (infinite regress)
3. ... Why N? There is no why for N. (termination with Whys outnumbering Becauses)

I don't think Fearless would be satisfied with a circular set of reasons, even if it could be given. For example, suppose the universe ends with a Big Crunch that causes a backwards-in-time effect which actually explains the Big Bang. Then, every causal "why" has an answer, but there is another "why" which doesn't, for example, why Big Bang ->... humans on Earth -> ... Big Crunch -> Big Bang, instead of slightly-different-Big-Bang -> ... Martians on Mars -> ... Big Crunch -> etc.?

If there are an infinite regress of reasons, you'll never wrap your mind around them all.

I recommend saving time, and getting to "I don't know why" early. I find it easy to appreciate the "what" of the universe without knowing any deep "why" for it.
 
Hitro said:
Yeah. Kind of sad but we really aren't more than the sum of our parts...
I disagree, the complexity in humanity comes from the synergy of interacting parts, therefore it's not just the sum of our parts.

Why, In my opinion, is anthropomorphizing the universe. "Why" to the universe has no meaning, why is a human invention.
 
Ah, this to me is the truly interesting religious question. While it is unclear to me why anyone would look to religion for the ‘how’, given what a good job science does and what a poor job all historical and current religions have done, it is equally unclear to me why anyone would think that the answer to ‘why’ can be found in science.

For me the big why is the same as ones relationship with God, it is a personal and internal thing and should never be assumed to be an objective truth but a subjective one. Of course this is easy for me because I try hard to limit my reliance on belief in objective truth – even for questions that lend themselves to experimental testing.

Unlike nihilistic, I do see value in asking some questions which I believe do not have objective answers, in seeking certain types of unverifiable knowledge. Specifically knowledge of self.

Just as one can look inside and find a moral code (you conscience), I think one can look inside and find answers to the big why. Of course this isn’t as easy as sitting down and doing it, you must work at it. You know right from wrong, and you also know why. The more you work at it the clearer the answer becomes.

For me it has become clear that the why is all about interactions with humans. At first I thought it was simply one on one type interactions, and really all about love. While I still think that love is the most important thing, I have come to believe that there are various levels of human interaction that are all important: one on one, small groups (immediate family size, say 3-7), medium groups (tribe size, say 25-250), and large groups (represented by all of humanity, but also encompassing nations, religions, and even political groups).

I am here to contribute at all these levels. To love and be loved, to try and improve the human condition.

Of course this is an answer to ‘why am I here’, but not to the bigger question of ‘why is the universe here at all, and why does it take the form it does’ (I think I once mentioned my theory on hydrogen and stars to you FL2). I have pondered that for much of my life, it is the question that took me from atheist to agnostic over a number of years.

I don’t know why, I assume I will never know why in my current form.

But I have also been able to separate that question (to which there might be an objective answer), from the question of why I am here (which I am happy to answer in subjective terms).

Perfection says that ‘why’ is a human invention, and I agree. As such it demands a human answer; why does have meaning to humans.
 
@Perfection, @Gothmog:

I do not understand why you say 'why' is a human question. The ultimate 'why' question may very well turn out to be outside the ambit of science but we do not know that yet.

Till date whenever we have asked a why question science has been able to provide an answer. We still do not know the answer to quite a few why questions but our science is not complete yet. As it progresses who is to say most of those will not come under its ambit.

Sometime ago, IIRC, I elaborated on why it is only the 'why' questions which are really teh eye opener in science or at least in physics. The 'how' questions are really much more mundane.

I will dig up that post if anyone is interested. It must be buried pretty deep by now.
 
In terms of biology, to live long and reproduce often, so as to keep our species as abundant as possible for as long as possible.
In terms of anything else... I don't think there can be a reason. I don't think reasons can exist without sentient beings to decide them. Unthinking, inanimate objects don't have reasons for doing anything. So IMO, either the universe (and life) were created purely by chance, or someone/thing that is conscious and intelligent decided to make the universe for their own purposes. I think that the former is more likely. But the sci-fi book Cosm is a very interesting story about the latter, in which a person is the creator of a universe... just read this book and imagine our own universe in the same way.
 
Gelion said:
Why not say 100%?
Well... can you really say that the first lifeforms on Earth "evolved" from a few chemical reactions? Not really.
 
There can't be any reason to our existence because then someone/something must have had created us for a purpose. And without a purpose there can be no reason.

So there is no reason for us being here other then what we make it to ourselves.
 
betazed, why is a human question because we are the observers. If there are any other non-human observers then they might ask why as well. But IMO inanimate objects do not ask why, really there is no why for inanimate objects. Even if science can reveal the objective 'why', it is still a human question and will still have a human answer as a component.

I remember your post on your interpretation of 'why' as presented by physics.

It spoke to Staples desire to separate 'cause' from 'reason', you were IMO describing the cause (and assuming a scientific cause). Why the laws of nature must be as we find them, why the universe must have come to be based on those laws. But that really is not a reason, at least not a human reason. Why is 'to do the will of God' or 'to party till I drop' or 'to love and contribute' or even 'there is no reason'.

Till date whenever we have asked a why question science has been able to provide an answer.
??? I must be mis-reading this. I have asked many why questions in my life, and studied much science. The most important why questions in my life have never been answered by science. Rather by introspection, or with the answer 'I don't know'.

Perhaps your ultimate why question refers to a scientific, objective cause, but mine does not. Even if there is no creator, even if science can explain why the universe must be here and take the form it does, my ultimate why will still be "To love and be loved, to try and improve the human condition."

In contrast a conversation with a diety could potentially change my opinion about the ultimate why.
 
??? I must be mis-reading this. I have asked many why questions in my life, and studied much science. The most important why questions in my life have never been answered by science. Rather by introspection, or with the answer 'I don't know'.

My mistake. I wrote it incorrectly in a hurry which led to the misunderstanding.

What I meant to say is in science whenever we have asked a 'why' question (like why do two masses attract each other) we have either found the answer or we have found that the answer is within the ambit of science but we do not have the science yet (like 'why do we have only four forces in nature?) and we hope that in the future we will find teh answer.

Given that background I do not see a question like 'why are we here?' beyond the ambit of science. We may find out why the universe was created when we know enough physics. Since we do not know enough we do not know whether the question really has an answer or not.

But be that as it may, I do see now where you are coming from.

While I am talking about the scientific question 'Why are we here' whose answer maybe (because of brane collision {I just made that up}) you maybe talking about the question 'Why is Gothmog here?' (to which the above answer is not satisfactory)

I understand the nuance between the two, and I see how 'love' maybe an answer to that.

It brings a quote of Feynmann to my mind.

"Physics is not the most important thing in life. Love is."
 
betazed said:
@Perfection, @Gothmog:

I do not understand why you say 'why' is a human question. The ultimate 'why' question may very well turn out to be outside the ambit of science but we do not know that yet.
Because FL2 is refering to a philosphical why not a physical.
 
What I meant to say is in science whenever we have asked a 'why' question (like why do two masses attract each other) we have either found the answer or we have found that the answer is within the ambit of science but we do not have the science yet (like 'why do we have only four forces in nature?) and we hope that in the future we will find teh answer.
This is because in science we are trained to ask questions that have an experimental handle. Questions without testable answers are typically considered 'unscientific'. Such as the question of the invisible purple dragon in my garage.

I think that there are inherently unscientific questions that have value. My subjectivity is very real to me, as I am sure yours is to you.

Since we do not know enough we do not know whether the question really has an answer or not.
I agree, nor do we know if science (along with probability and chance) is all there is or if there is another first cause such as a creator be it purposeful or accidental.

It could also be that though the question or physical origins has an objective scientific answer, human constraints will never allow us to find that answer.
 
carlosMM said:
99,99999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999[... and on for 3 pages]9% of all species that every existed on this planet evolved. None were ever created.


you are wrong. sorry!

100% of all species that every existed on this planet were created. None ever evolved.


you are wrong. sorry!
 
ybbor said:
100% of all species that every existed on this planet were created. None ever evolved.


you are wrong. sorry!
You want to justify that with some evidence?

(Please do it in the thread in my sig)
 
Perfection said:
You want to justify that with some evidence?

(Please do it in the thread in my sig)
funny , that;s exactly what i said to carlosMM
 
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