Why are we here?

[Birdjaguar]

Create your own goal -

*To gain knowledge.
*To create something grand.
*To obey your own law.
*To gratify the mind or senses.
*To oppose injustice.
*To uncover secrets.

I live a life that aims at all these goals.

And all without "love"? But of course, you probably don't need it, right?

 

[-Gladiator-]

I don't know why other ppl are here on earth, all I know is that my goal in life is to spread anarchy...No governments!!!, No nations!!!, No countries!!!-> Just freedom, no wars for land or resources and CHAOS!!!

 

[Stapel]

Great....so we are no better than a fruit fly awesome

Get back to me when u are in your death bed and realize that your existence was the same as the one of a butterfly, to see if u say that so calmly and cool.

What a big nonsense. It is very typical for religious people to think that a random created life can't have value. That is quite a ridiculous assumption. I do not need to believe in a creator, to see the difference between a butterfly and a human being.

 

[Ayatollah So]

Two thousand "prove god exists" posts speak eloquently of those who refuse to look beyond reason & logic, as well as, those who refuse to accept what reason does prove. I agree, gothmog, that freeing oneself from the straight jacketed, sheeple thinking of the "reason only" and "god only" positions is liberating and allows one to explore the mystery of why we are here.

There's at least one further option - not "reason only," but "reason always". I.e., no matter how "subjective" the subject, never write off reason as irrelevant. The soul is not so ghostly, nor the body so mechanical, as popular opinion would have it.

 

[CurtSibling]

And all without "love"? But of course, you probably don't need it, right?

Do you deem to tell me what I need?

I love the tides of life - Isn't that suitable?

I think so.

 

[ManOfMiracles]

I am here because I'm not there...at least I'm not all there.
All you need is love
42
...and all that jazz

 

[Azadre]

We are here to worship the one true god, Allah.

 

[FearlessLeader2]

Maybe I'm not being plain enough in my writing...

(Oh, and thread-jacking EvoCrea morons, go away.)

The way I see it, there are basically two answers to my question, which depend slightly on the how.

1) Either some god intentionally created this universe and knows why it did so,

OR

2) It just happened/ the god created the universe accidentally/ did it deliberately but not for any reason other than companionship.

The issue is not which of these two options is correct so much as it is what are the ramifications of those two options. Option 1 is currently not very likely as far as I can tell. Option 2 is far likelier, and far more difficult to find a purpose for... well, for anything in.

I happen to believe that a god, specifically Jehovah, created the universe, and life in basic form or forms, and modified that life to suit His creations' needs. This belief does nothing to answer the why question though. Assuming it is correct, I have a choice between brief limited hedonism, and eternal somewhat less-limited hedonism.

Is there any legitimate advantage to one of these choices over the other? Is there any proof that existence is preferable to non-existence?

If my belief is incorrect, I am still stuck with both options, but now I'm either being denied vital knowledge (my objective purpose) in option 1, or I have none whatsoever in option 2.

Is there a material difference in the case of either not knowing my objective purpose or not having one? Should I act differently in either case? Given that I can't know which of the two circumstances I am laboring under, which should I assume? Does it matter? Does an object made for a purpose, and then witheld from acting on that purpose have any reason to exist? Does an object that has no purpose have any reason to exist?

Can an object without any reason to exist ever have a purpose once its existence is established? Probably, but only a subjective one.

That leads me to what I guess is the last question for now:

If there is no objective purpose to life, the universe, and everything, does a subjective purpose give meaning to one's existence, or merely hide the meaninglessness of it?

(Oh, and once again, thread-jackers go away.)

 

[Saga of Gemini]

What a big nonsense. It is very typical for religious people to think that a random created life can't have value. That is quite a ridiculous assumption. I do not need to believe in a creator, to see the difference between a butterfly and a human being.

Whats the difference?

I dont see it. Anything u can say about love and such can be reduced to nothing. Since it dosnt really exists.

WE ARE NO BETTER THAN A BUTTERFLY

They live a day with no reason for living it no valuable reason at least...unless a person whos aware of pourpuse and reason wacths it and sees the beauty of it.


What u live for what? for waht reason? your family? they can die and u can die then what? for sex ? being old destroys that plus, u can have an acident and become paralized. for partys? , money? study? then after u get your paychek someone cleans your bank accuont,after u get your diploma u get shot?.

I can imagine any answer u can give me that separetes u from a fruit fly...srry.

 

[Saga of Gemini]

If there is no objective purpose to life, the universe, and everything, does a subjective purpose give meaning to one's existence, or merely hide the meaninglessness of it?

it hides it...as my previus posts proves. Nothing material can give meaning to existence.

To give a vanal thing the pourpuse of life its to delude the emptiness of what the meaningless dosnt feel.
There has to be an objective pourpose.

Otherwise we are no better than a rock we kick in the way home.

Subjective meaning its useless. When seeking meaning.

 

[Birdjaguar]

Do you deem to tell me what I need?

I love the tides of life - Isn't that suitable?

I think so.

Never, kind sir! It just seemed strangely absent from your list given the broad reach and significant depth of your thinking. Hmmm do I remember correctly that you own a dog? They are an ever present source of adoration and unquestioned devotion (if raised right).

 

[Birdjaguar]

There's at least one further option - not "reason only," but "reason always". I.e., no matter how "subjective" the subject, never write off reason as irrelevant. The soul is not so ghostly, nor the body so mechanical, as popular opinion would have it.

I agree. I would never discount reason from the equation. Infact, I would give reason about half of the equation (to quantify that say 30%) and all the irrational, mystical stuff the other half (30%) so when we add them together we get 100% of existence.

 

[Benderino]

Why are we here?

To gorge ourselves on clam chowder! Man, that stuff's great!

 

[FearlessLeader2]

Alas, for subjectivism. Alas.

 

[Birdjaguar]

Whats the difference? I dont see it. Anything u can say about love and such can be reduced to nothing. Since it dosnt really exists.

WE ARE NO BETTER THAN A BUTTERFLY

They live a day with no reason for living it no valuable reason at least...unless a person whos aware of pourpuse and reason wacths it and sees the beauty of it. What u live for what? for waht reason? your family? they can die and u can die then what? for sex ? being old destroys that plus, u can have an acident and become paralized. for partys? , money? study? then after u get your paychek someone cleans your bank accuont,after u get your diploma u get shot?.

I can imagine any answer u can give me that separetes u from a fruit fly...srry.

You are right to say that matter and things made of matter do not have any intrinsic value or worth other than what we impart to it. It also means that all matter has the same value (zero). Now as a thinking human, I impart value to things and rank them. My wife and kids are more valuable to me than the neighbor's dog. The value I add is relative to my situation and very real. I make important decisons based on how I value things. Somebody else will have different values attached to the same lumps of matter.

If there is a god, then whatever values he sees in things is what is correct. In hinduism all creation has the same value in god's eyes: zero! In christianity humans are raised above the other critters and therefore have higher value in god's eyes.

Where you choose to view the world from will determine what you see.

 

[Colonel]

Hasn't anyone told you we are here to destroy Perfection j/k

Heres the Religon Nutcases reason
"We are because it is God's Will"

And here is the real reason

We are here because some Matter and Anti Matter caused a mass explosion and started this horrible thing we know as the Universe

 

[Perfection]

I have a mind that evolution (FL2, you can stuff whatever the hell your creation idea is instead of that) provided me capable of learning and appreciating the beauty of the universe. That and human relationships, and good viddles and lots of other pretty cool stuff. Heck, that's good enough for me!

 

[Birdjaguar]

The way I see it, there are basically two answers to my question, which depend slightly on the how.

1) Either some god intentionally created this universe and knows why it did so,
OR
2) It just happened/ the god created the universe accidentally/ did it deliberately but not for any reason other than companionship.

The issue is not which of these two options is correct so much as it is what are the ramifications of those two options. Option 1 is currently not very likely as far as I can tell. Option 2 is far likelier, and far more difficult to find a purpose for... well, for anything in.

I happen to believe that a god, specifically Jehovah, created the universe, and life in basic form or forms, and modified that life to suit His creations' needs. This belief does nothing to answer the why question though. Assuming it is correct, I have a choice between brief limited hedonism, and eternal somewhat less-limited hedonism.

Is there any legitimate advantage to one of these choices over the other? Is there any proof that existence is preferable to non-existence?

If my belief is incorrect, I am still stuck with both options, but now I'm either being denied vital knowledge (my objective purpose) in option 1, or I have none whatsoever in option 2.

Is there a material difference in the case of either not knowing my objective purpose or not having one? Should I act differently in either case? Given that I can't know which of the two circumstances I am laboring under, which should I assume? Does it matter? Does an object made for a purpose, and then witheld from acting on that purpose have any reason to exist? Does an object that has no purpose have any reason to exist?

Can an object without any reason to exist ever have a purpose once its existence is established? Probably, but only a subjective one.

That leads me to what I guess is the last question for now:

If there is no objective purpose to life, the universe, and everything, does a subjective purpose give meaning to one's existence, or merely hide the meaninglessness of it?

An interesting collection of thoughts. The two initial choices were a little weak, but you carried the idea to a thoughtful conclusion. Origen, that ingenious christian thinker, presented an interesting solution to the delimna of purpose. I'm sure Plotinus can provide a better summary whenever he gets back to posting, but here I go anyway.
According to Origen the purpose of Human souls is to evolve and to eventually merge with god. All souls start out in a state of "imperfection". The devil being the most imperfect soul. All souls will go through a series of lives (yes reincarnation in christian theology) and will over time migrate closer and closer to god. In the end all souls will merge with god even the devil. Belief in Jesus speeds up the process as does living a good life etc. In the end we all get there in spite of ourselves. In his theology, it didn't matter if you knew your purpose, god does and allows you to find your own way home.

It took the catholic church several hundred years to decide that Origen didn't quite fit with the direction the church was going.

 

[Birdjaguar]

I have a mind that evolution provided me capable of learning and appreciating the beauty of the universe. That and human relationships, and good viddles and lots of other pretty cool stuff. Heck, that's good enough for me!

That may be sufficient, but evolution also provided you a mind that can imagine things that cannot be seen, feel things that we have not explained, and to look at ourselves and laugh.

I'm not sure that any god can limit his powers, but it is very clear that humans do it every day.

 

[Gothmog]

If there is no objective purpose to life, the universe, and everything, does a subjective purpose give meaning to one's existence, or merely hide the meaninglessness of it?

I think you hit the most important issue right on the head here FL2… meaning. IMO, we are subjective beings. Objectivity is never reached, and only even approached with great difficulty and stringent rules. So meaning is always reached through subjectivity. If you feel and believe that there is meaning to your life, then there is. Really, it’s as simple as that.

Now finding meaning is not as simple, but as I wrote in my previous post the answer is inside you. You do know what gives meaning to your life, or what could. Some people need guidance to look inside and find meaning, to a large extent that is what effective psychiatrists do.

I will not comment on dogmatic structures as I do not believe any of them are correct, but I do see that they help some people find meaning.

I find meaning in my personal relationships, in strong family ties, in creating a sense of community at various level, and in contributing to something larger than myself at my work.

Of course this sense of meaning does not depend on your option one or two. That’s a damn good thing because if there is an objective meaning of some kind I don’t expect to find that out in this life. Though I would welcome some divine help on that point.

It’s like the old joke:
“Life may have no meaning. Or even worse, it may have a meaning of which I disapprove.”


Edit: Oh, and Saga... I can't even imagine what you think objectivity means or how you distinguish it from subjectivity.