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Why are you here?

Discussion in 'Civ4 - Fall from Heaven' started by Kael, Feb 15, 2006.

  1. Kael

    Kael Chieftain

    Joined:
    May 6, 2002
    Messages:
    17,400
    Location:
    Ohio
    Welcome to the FfH forum. This is the home of the Fall from Heaven 2 beta. Feel free to hang out, post any ideas, recommendations or comments about the mod.

    The design team and I spend a lot of time here, hours each week. You could argue that the time we spend reading and posting might be better spent actually working on the mod. What can't be argued is that FfH has been shaped dramatically by the community. This is, and always has been, run as an internet project where everyones ideas are considered and discussed. Im sure many wish we were more open, responded to more posts or included more ideas, but we try our best.

    There is an old story about Sir Francis Galton (father of modern eugenics and cousin of charles darwin). Galton was an elitist in that he thought that the public was basically incapable of making intelligent decisions. But he was at a fair filled with common folk and noticed a game going on to guess the weight of an ox. A few of the people had some knowledge about how much an ox of that size would wiegh, but most had no idea. And the guesses varied widely. At the end of the day Galton gathered the just less than 800 guesses that were made during the day and averaged them out. Altogether they were closer to the true weight of the ox than any individual guess, whats more the average answer was only 1lb off of the true weight of the ox.

    This experiement is carried out in college classrooms all over with jars of jelly beans, and the results are the same. The public is amazing good at making informed specific decisions. Better than any individual member, even the knowledgable ones. That logic has served us well on the FfH team and even though we may not react to individual recommendations ofr change, we do listen closely to the trends and try to make changes to drive close and closer to that optimal gameplay that we are all trying to hit.

    Lastly, I would like to thank the design team for their amazing work. So many of FfH's best features weren't imagined, designed or implemented by me. A lot of work has come from the entire team, who have proven to be the best in their respective areas.

    - Kael
     
  2. Kael

    Kael Chieftain

    Joined:
    May 6, 2002
    Messages:
    17,400
    Location:
    Ohio
    02/15/2006 - Letter to the Design Team

    [tab]Welcome to the Fall from Heaven 2 design team. The purpose of this forum is to share and discuss the next version of the Mod. You will find threads on each of the major feature areas, many ideas will branch into multiple features but try to keep posts as specific to the thread as possible.

    [tab]The plan is that the first post of each thread is the targeted design, items in that post that are prceeded by a "+" have already been implemented. The 2nd post of each thread is reserved for ideas that are under consideration. I will try to pull ideas from the threads up into that post to help keep things organized, and so we don't lose ideas.

    Design Guidelines:

    1.[tab]Fall from Heaven is a Dark Fantasy mod. Meaning even the good guys aren't always that good. Blood and gothic imagery should be prevalent. Traditional "princess fairy" aspects of the fantasy world will not be included, the world is to violent for them to survive.

    2.[tab]Erebus is a world at war, not over race or civilization, but over ideologies. That war is represented in many ways, but the core differences between Good (sacrifice of the one for the many) and Evil (sacrifice of the many for the one) and between Law (order at the expense of freedom) and Chaos (freedom at the expense of order) are central themes.

    3.[tab]There is no need to be complete, patterns are generally uncreative and often detract from the strategic decisions. It is much easier to balance units/civilizations/relgions etc by making them have similiar abilities but we rob the world of its flavor by doing that. Each object in the game needs its own flavor, and even if it means we can only make a quarter of the objects we would be able to if we copied our ideas, I think its worth it. There is a balance here, obviously not everything can be unique, but we shouldn't strive to copy a mechanic or idea just because it would be easy to do so.

    4.[tab]We are looking for the ideas that will make people want to play the mod. The kinds of things they will miss when they go back to the normal game. There are tons of stuff we could do, with the group we have here getting ideas isn't a problem. The challenge is deciding which ones will excite players and then doing those ideas really well.

    5.[tab]More is worse in a strategy game. Every new object has a cost, not just in what it takes to create, test and manage, but the player has to keep track of it as well. In general we should only add items because they offer a significant improvement to some aspect of the game, and not just to have, more units, more resources, etc.

    6.[tab]Please don't be dissapointed if your ideas aren't included. Try not to be confused when I disagree with an idea and then decide to include it a few weeks later, sometimes I just have to chew on an idea for a while before I come to see its value. And sometimes I don't think an idea is right for the mod, even if it is a brillant idea. I didn't think the mod needed new civs in phase 1 until Haarbal showed them to me and I was impressed by how much better they made it. I didn't think religious specific cities would be worth the work until Chalid showed it to me and I was absolutly amazed by it. I can't promise I will accept everything, but I will consider everything. I know you guys put a lot of work into providing feedback and ideas, don't ever think that that work isn't appreciated.

    05/18/2006- Letter to the Public

    [tab]Welcome to the Fall from Heaven 2 forum! Please allow me to take your coat and help yourself to some of the high class hours-devours, I highly recommend the beanie weenies.

    [tab]Mingle and make yourself at home. Be sure to play the mod and let us know what you think. We are always open to new ideas and a lot of what ended up in FfH1 and contributed to FfH2 came from suggestions recommended by the community.

    - Kael

    ps. please stay out of the pool, Chalid put his pet Kraken in there. The Kraken has a fondness for girly drinks and early 80's sitcoms. So please don't leave any drink with an tiny umbrella or Gary Coleman out on the patio unsupervised.
     
  3. Thunderfall

    Thunderfall Administrator Administrator Moderator

    Joined:
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    12,146
    Gender:
    Male
    The forum should be public now. :)
     
  4. Civmansam

    Civmansam Chieftain

    Joined:
    Jan 15, 2006
    Messages:
    909
    First Non member Post Whooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo!
    Sorry I just got overexcited
     
  5. Kael

    Kael Chieftain

    Joined:
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    Messages:
    17,400
    Location:
    Ohio
    Eeeeeee!!!! They are here. Everyone look busy!
     
  6. woodelf

    woodelf Bard

    Joined:
    Jun 12, 2003
    Messages:
    15,036
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    Gallery
    Busy? I plan on hiding under my desk!
     
  7. Reno

    Reno The Studio Ghibli Fanatic

    Joined:
    Feb 8, 2004
    Messages:
    5,690
    Location:
    Tampere, Finland
    And here I was thinking to myself; "How on earth can I see this forum? I'm not even a developement team member...". That cleared it up.
     
  8. Kael

    Kael Chieftain

    Joined:
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    Location:
    Ohio
    Expecting a riot when they find out our finely tuned development process is actually just us sitting around making fun of each other?
     
  9. Berrie

    Berrie Proud father

    Joined:
    Mar 4, 2006
    Messages:
    1,118
    Location:
    Belgium
    Just want to give you guys the tumbs up :thumbsup:
    Keep up the good work and make this mod even more 'fantastic' then the first one!
     
  10. Chammadai

    Chammadai The absent one

    Joined:
    Dec 27, 2005
    Messages:
    71
    Location:
    Gdansk
    No use in having the forum when the beta isn't out yet.
    Yet here I am, posting. Ha!
    <Pokes Woodelf> <Pokes Kael> Ooh, you're real! And I always thought you were just a complicated AI let loose on the net.
    Keep up the good work, guys :)

    Cheers
     
  11. Kael

    Kael Chieftain

    Joined:
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    17,400
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    Actually Im hoping it gives folks a little chance to read about the mod before they start playing (kinda like checking out the manual on the drive home from the gaming store). But yeah, I don't expect much feedback yet.
     
  12. woodelf

    woodelf Bard

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    I always want my wife to drive home after picking up a game so I can do just that. :)

    In this case you can print out these threads at work (or school) and read them on the commute home.
     
  13. wilboman

    wilboman Hibernorse Frost Giant

    Joined:
    Nov 25, 2001
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    Location:
    A timeshare in Kwythellar
    Provided you live in Mexico City and work in Vancouver...
     
  14. puck11b

    puck11b Chieftain

    Joined:
    Apr 14, 2006
    Messages:
    138
    I suspect that this is going to turn into the introduction thread, so I'd better jump on in.
    Hi, I'm here to help iron out some of the bugs in what promises to be a very interesting mod... alright, I admit it. I just want to play it. *grin*
    ~p
     
  15. BCLG100

    BCLG100 Music Master

    Joined:
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    Lahndan

    :lol: was wondering the exact same thing, had i become part of the elite team :mischief:
     
  16. BeefontheBone

    BeefontheBone Windbag of the sea

    Joined:
    Nov 7, 2005
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    2,018
    Need to rustle up enough time to actually play this thing, but keep up the good work guys!

    You might find you want to keed the development threads and stuff non-public though; apart from anything else it gets messy this way :)

    EDIT: Of course, you could have already thought of that and I wouldn't know. Hmmm.

    My head hurts.
     
  17. Ansar

    Ansar Détente avec l'été

    Joined:
    May 20, 2005
    Messages:
    10,555
    Location:
    Ithaca, NY (soon)
    What is the Fall from Heaven mod? :confused:

    Will it be like the MTDG? :thumbsup:

    Also, will it be civ3 or civ4? :scan:

    I was too confused when I saw this new forum...:hmm:
     
  18. Abaddon

    Abaddon Chieftain

    Joined:
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    its cIV, i know that much..

    otherwise, WOTCHA guys.. looking good- i'll get my oar in soon :)
     
  19. Kael

    Kael Chieftain

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    Its a Fantasy mod for Civ 4. More details here: http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=171398
     
  20. YNCS

    YNCS Ex-bubblehead

    Joined:
    Feb 16, 2003
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    A mod that has it's own section. Not even Civ3 DyP/RaR or Warhammer had that. Kael, you are truly honored.
     

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