Why are Zulus expected to be the next DLC?

[Save_Ferris]

In second place with the Celts and Carthage if I look at the poll correctly? It's the eighth from the top.

Sorry, not used to it being called the Netherlands as much.
But still incomplete, can you only have 10 options?

 

[awesome]

there are some i'd add, some i'd take out

 

[cccv]

I think we'll see a Zulu DLC someday, because Zulu=money. There's no solid reason to assume they'll be next, though.

 

[Ironmonger69]

And none from Australia. They must REALLY hate those guys. Don't get me started on how they've shunned antarctica, either. Haters!

 

[awesome]

well...

 

[Lyoncet]

I'm not so sure city states are a good indication given that for the Denmark DLC they just removed the Copenhagen CS etc.

Well, sort of. They've set a precedent of just switching out a city-state if it's going to be used as part of a civ, so we know that having city state A doesn't mean that civilization B, which includes city-state A, doesn't exclude civilization B from the game. However, I'd say that not having city state C, which represents world player D, worthy of inclusion of a civ, indicates that it's likely civilization D will show up as a playable civ since there'd be little reason not to include it as a CS otherwise.

 

[snipperrabbit!!]

What unique gameplay should the Zulus have to warrant an inclusion ?

Currently, Zulus are the only one missing from the original Civilization and they have been included in all the sequels so far. I will consider it a fail as well as a treason not to have them in Civ 5. So, what can make them an unique experience ?

 

[Louis XXIV]

Ancient speed rush Civ, essentially. The Aztecs and Polynesians can both be ancient warmongers, but they aren't quick. With the Greeks and Romans, you need to get resources and set up Companion Cavalry or Legions. I suppose Persia is the closest. The Zulu would be quick units that can attack early.

I personally don't find that to be all that interesting, but it's the most plausible.

 

[Horizons]

Once you've had black you won't go back - the Zulu unique attribute.


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[Polycrates]

In Civ IV, the Zulu were the kings of ancient/classical-age harassment and pillage. Impi were second-to-none for going out and utterly demolishing even the best-developed enemy empires via massive pillaging and worker stealing, while outmaneuvering and using terrain defense to outfight (where necessary) enemy forces, and using their speed to lightning-strike weak new cities. You could easily pillage a whole continent back to the stone age, then come in with axes and swords and cats at your leisure to pick off what was left of your crippled opponents.
They were also great at expanding like crazy without crashing their economy (via ikhandas, cheap workers and cheap granaries), so you could have truly massive populations to whip-rush like crazy.

It was a really fun playstyle, and something I'd kind of like to see replicated.
Zulu were all about mobility and outflanking. While the impi is pretty much guaranteed to be a no-movement-penalty kind of guy, something that I think could be really interesting and powerful as a UA would be "no movement penalties for terrain or ZOC" for all units. And then make the Impi maybe a 3-move spearman with an increased flanking bonus or something.
Maybe too powerful? I dunno, though it would certainly require an altered playstyle to fully take advantage of, which seems to be really what they're going for with the DLC.

 

[_hero_]

1. They've been in every Civ game ever made
2. There is a geographic opening for them
3. They are a popular civ

 

[awesome]

i'd actually like to see impis replace pikemen

 

[Polycrates]

i'd actually like to see impis replace pikemen

Yeah I reckon that would be cool too, though I suspect the ultra-literalism brigade would get mightily up in arms. It would also fit better for the inevitable "fight off the british/boers" scenario. And in a way, they were advanced spearmen, since they replaced earlier troops that just stood off and threw spears. As a pikeman replacement, I'd probably go with something like 3 move with no terrain penalty, but not as much bonus vs mounted, maybe an increased flanking bonus and a bonus vs gun units (because they pretty much have to fit that in there somewhere).

 

[CoffeeMug]

i'd actually like to see impis replace pikemen

Forgive me to use outdated Civ3 comparisons but, in terms of Attack, Defense, aren't impis waaay over rated?. I know the whole combat mechanics in civ5 are different but, i see impis more closer to a spearmen. Must be given some credit on attack for their buffalo horns formation though...

 

[Morningcalm]

They were still skilled in warfare, and pikemen aren't amazingly strong to begin with. I'd prefer it if Impis replaced pikemen.

 

[anandus]

Ancient speed rush Civ, essentially. The Aztecs and Polynesians can both be ancient warmongers, but they aren't quick. With the Greeks and Romans, you need to get resources and set up Companion Cavalry or Legions. I suppose Persia is the closest. The Zulu would be quick units that can attack early.

I personally don't find that to be all that interesting, but it's the most plausible.

But that wouldn't fit the "patch notes hint at DLC civ"-theory as, if I'm not mistaken, the second part of the patch focuses on late gameplay rebalancing.
Although said theory doesn't have to be that way with every patch of course.

 

[Pouakai]

Zulu Impi would have to replace Pikeman, I hate ancient UU!

 

[snipperrabbit!!]

I'm glad with the answers so far because Impi as a Pikemen replacement is also my spot. Now, a fast infantry civ is something more fitting for Ethiopia with their fast long distance runners. What to do with their ability ? I think we can somehow emulate what happened during the Mfecane. Here is the UA I came with :
Migratory Wars
Other civilizations cannot settle within a 2 tiles distance from any Zulu infantry unit.

It will enforce war for land grab if you send Impis early and an adverse settling party comes your way !
This is actually an interesting anti-spanish UA,isn't it ?

 

[Polycrates]

I'm glad with the answers so far because Impi as a Pikemen replacement is also my spot. Now, a fast infantry civ is something more fitting for Ethiopia with their fast long distance runners.

The thing about the Zulu though was that their speed was not just battlefield maneuverability (though there was that as well) or even the ability of their troops to march at great speeds because of their harsh drilling, but also because their military organisation had a focus on fast logistical support (often provided by children carrying supplies until they were old enough to fight), which is the real contributor to speed on an organisational and strategic level - particularly speed through difficult terrain. Mobility was a key aspect of how the Zulu fought their wars. The other aspect was outflanking/encirclement, and from a civ mechanics perspective, that requires greater mobility as well.

What to do with their ability ? I think we can somehow emulate what happened during the Mfecane. Here is the UA I came with :
Migratory Wars
Other civilizations cannot settle within a 2 tiles distance from any Zulu infantry unit.

It will enforce war for land grab if you send Impis early and an adverse settling party comes your way !
This is actually an interesting anti-spanish UA,isn't it ?

It would certainly encourage a different playstyle, but I'd just wonder whether that would make them too much of a frustration to play against...

 

[Polycrates]

Forgive me to use outdated Civ3 comparisons but, in terms of Attack, Defense, aren't impis waaay over rated?. I know the whole combat mechanics in civ5 are different but, i see impis more closer to a spearmen. Must be given some credit on attack for their buffalo horns formation though...

Well, although it was with a massive weight of numbers and with often good leadership and tactics (against incompetent and overconfident leaders), they managed to put up a pretty good fight against troops that were somewhere between riflemen and infantry. In civ mechanics, spearmen aren't going to do anything to riflemen. And really, spearmen in-game are only one small step up from warriors, who are just dudes in loincloths with axes. In reality as well, would any ancient spearmen hold up against an impi? I'd argue not, since an impi was a professional army of troops drilled since youth rather than a levy of whatever rabble the local chieftain could get to hold a pointy stick. Even against a bunch of hoplites, which you might consider the cream of ancient spearmen, I would certainly put all my money on the impi to quickly outflank and subsequently absolutely annihilate them, since the phalanx was nothing if not a hopelessly inflexible fighting force.

Pikemen are really just a bunch of peasants with long pointy things, maybe a bit of armour and a bit of a dose of regimentation. So I don't see why a well-disciplined force like an impi couldn't be considered commensurate in strength. Though I would suggest giving them a reduced bonus vs cavalry (maybe down to +50%) since that's certainly an area where pikemen would outshine them.