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Why Bernie Sanders should be president

Discussion in 'Off-Topic' started by Lawn_Donuts, Dec 25, 2015.

  1. caketastydelish

    caketastydelish By any means necessary

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    Didn't mean to say "mean people support him." Sanders supporters tend to be the nicest, most talented, and most intelligent people I've ever known.

    Anyway, yes. Obama didn't even try. Obama was in bed with the corporations just as much as Hillary is now. Obama never even ran out a people's platform to begin with. Sanders has raised awareness to the issues that Obama never did if he were elected, he'd use the people's support to get things done.
     
  2. Wolfbeckett

    Wolfbeckett Jerkin' and nonsense.

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    People keep saying things like this but I'd love to hear how they think he's going to do that. Laws in this country aren't passed via popular vote, there's a strict, constitutionally defined process that has to be followed in order for anything to be legal. I'd love to hear how this nebulous concept of "the people's support" is going to suddenly render Congress powerless and unable to resist the will of Caesar Bernie.
     
  3. caketastydelish

    caketastydelish By any means necessary

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    The people will put pressure on congressman and senators to enact Bernie's policies.
     
  4. Wolfbeckett

    Wolfbeckett Jerkin' and nonsense.

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    Right, that worked so well for Obama, I can't see how it could fail here! The Republicans definitely did not try to block absolutely everything Obama did regardless of how much the people supported it, nope.

    Congressmen care more about the special interests that bankroll them than they do their constituents. They make token nods towards populism whenever election time rolls around and they have to crank up the Rhetoric Engine to drive the voting base to the polls but after the votes are counted they're right back to servicing corporate interests like a back-alley hooker. This idea that people supporting Sanders is going to somehow make congress just roll over like a good dog is nonsense, Obama had a ton of popular support after his first election and the Repubs just dug in their heels all the harder for it.
     
  5. _random_

    _random_ Jewel Runner

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    Sure, but what does that look like? The biggest pressure voters can put on their officials is not reelecting them, but how do they ensure that the officials they do elect will be more willing to work with President Sanders? You could work to primary Democratic candidates, or you could support Green or Socialist candidates, but both of those things would require an unprecedented level of political involvement across the nation. Sanders has done a rad job of energizing people for something sexy like a presidential campaign, but I don't know if that energy can be sustained locally for long enough to get his agenda passed. Not to mention that opposition would be well-mobilized, especially if the targets aren't just Republicans but mainstream Democrats too.
     
  6. caketastydelish

    caketastydelish By any means necessary

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    Can you recall any politician calling for the things Sanders has called for with anywhere near the support Sanders has now? Obama for example? he ran as a moderate. Center left at the very, very most. The only people calling Obama a 'socalist' are people that are going to call him a Muslim as well, and will call him those things no matter what.

    Sanders is an actual Socalist, something Obama would never say in a million years. Not while he was campaigning for president, now during his presidency, not ever.

    And so many people are still receptive. You can't say that's not huge. Sanders actually has more people supporting him than Trump. Even if Trump has much more media coverage, Sanders has the power of the people behind him. The media, corporations and big money all want Sanders to lose which is why they've brainwashed so many people to think a Sanders presidency would be a disaster when in fact by voting against Sanders, you are voting against yourself if you're not in the top 1 %.
     
  7. _random_

    _random_ Jewel Runner

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    Hey, I also see his campaign as a positive thing in giving some vitality to the American left. I'm just not sure how much immediate impact that could have. And by immediate I mean "within the eight hypothetical years of a Sanders administration." Perhaps I'm too cynical though.
     
  8. Archbob

    Archbob Ancient CFC Guardian

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    I think if Sanders won, it'd be a shock to the American right and he could push some things through depending on how much he's willing to take on congress--especially the right wing of Congress. If he publically calls out the republican congressman for going against policies that the people are in favor him, it will severely hurt them even if they don't pass him policies. That is something Obama never did -- call out publically people who where completely against him even though he had popular support early in his administration.
     
  9. caketastydelish

    caketastydelish By any means necessary

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    Obama didn't try because he wasn't a people's candidate to begin with. He was charismatic yes, but that doesn't change the fact he was in bed with big money, corporations, special interests groups.

    Obama wasn't as far to the right as Bush but he was hardly much of a leftist. If Sanders beats Hillary I can easily see him beating Trump. And Sanders has more chance to beat Hillary than you some of you are considering- Black voters simply haven't heard of him, which means all they have to do is hear about him to find out he represents their interest far more than Hillary does. It's not the same as Black voters intentionally voting against him as they did against Hillary last time. They all knew who Hillary was, they just wanted Obama instead. Whereas this time, they don't necessarily prefer Hillary over Sanders- they're simply unaware of Sanders. Leading up to the election more and more people are getting familiar with Sanders and his message. Not much unlike how Hillary was leading last time but ended up losing anyway.

    Sanders doesn't have near the money/corporate backing compared to people like Hillary or Trump. This is truly a people's movement and he has inspired me to actually not be cynical and get involved with this election, and he has proven to me that there is at least one politician that actually does care about the 99%.

    Sanders is not "Ron Paul 2.0" The only thing he has in common with Paul is that his core of voters really love him. Sanders is closer to getting the Democratic nomination than Ron Paul ever could be, and infinitely more important than that- while Sanders last chance will be this election, his movement will continue long after that and indeed his lifetime. Ron Paul's policies are crazy and no one will vote for them, no matter how charismatic the person saying them is.
     
  10. Archbob

    Archbob Ancient CFC Guardian

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    But Sanders doesn't have the Black vote wrapped up like Obama did, which was critical to him nomination last time.

    Also, I do think Hillary would have made a better president than Obama the last eight years.
     
  11. caketastydelish

    caketastydelish By any means necessary

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    Sanders doesn't have the black vote "wrapped up" but he decisively has the youth vote. Older dems are more likely to vote for Hillary, I realistically see that much, but the black vote will not necessarily be for Hillary near as much as people are expecting... it could end up being much closer to 50/50, or they could outright go with a majority of them for Sanders.

    Many African Americans make less than 15 bucks an hour and for that alone Sanders would be the obvious choice.

    Sanders is also making people like me, who normally don't vote at all and are very cynical, vote for him. Hillary is definitely the "establishment" candidate. But the only part of the democratic party who I see will mostly vote for her are older dems.
     
  12. Bridog7

    Bridog7 Little Monster

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    I support Bernie FTW, but if he were not to win the nomination then Hillary would be my choice (although its very hard to support her) but in comparison to the Republican nominees its quite easy to support Hillary. I mean I would not support the republican party anyways, but given their main choices, I feel its going to be a step backwards if one of them were to win. Trump (McGuire) is crazy about throwing people with his wall, and with his lowering tax plan, how is the government is magically going to make up that lost money. Sounds like Ben Carson's knife magically breaking on a belt buckle. Speaking of Ben Carson, his backstory and views on foreign policy are questionable; I suggest he spend more time on the toilet having more revelations. Cruz on the other hand, is a "(1980's) maniac" when it comes to foreign policy, marriage equality and women's rights. And Rubio is already contradicting himself by saying in the debate "traditional values doesn't mean bigotry" although true, he sure comes off as one in his views towards gay marriage.

    Bernie and Hillary are by no means "saviours," But there's a better chance of things improving or atleast not going dowhill with those two (more so Bernie than Hillary) than the Republican side in which I think there's a better chance of the country getting worse with a republican than a democrat.
     
  13. onejayhawk

    onejayhawk Afflicted with reason

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    This is true. The black bloc is truly a block. If they choose to support Sanders, bar the doors.

    J
     
  14. danjuno

    danjuno Emperor

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    It's 2015, not 2009. You're assuming a Dem majority would contain a significant number of Blue Dogs from red states. I can literally count the number of Democratic Senators on my hand who are from a state that voted for Romney. The Democrats can easily retake the Senate without changing that number. For Democrats from Liberal or swing states, toeing the party line (lead by the president) would be more important. Nuking the filibuster for legislative purposes would also work for a Dem Majority leader, and wouldn't be politically unpopular.

    Additionally, Sanders is not Jimmy Carter. He has been in Congress since 1991, and in the Senate since 2007. He does have the ability to work with others, including Republicans (see the Veterans bill with McCain). Obama's four years in the senate were the extent of his experience on Capitol Hill, so he's much more like Jimmy Carter in that regard.

    Furthermore, any Republican bad enough to lose to Sanders (namely the current front runner) will almost certainly cause significant down the ballot damage. In addition to the GOP Senate being over expanded in blue states for the 2016 class, many of the Republican seats that Democrats needs to retake the House are mainly in suburban districts whose Educated, White-Collar Caucasian voters would be repulsed by a Donald Trump Nomination. The educated, moderate Republicans in those districts would likely stay home.
     
  15. onejayhawk

    onejayhawk Afflicted with reason

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    The Senate is another thread, but no. The Democrats may, in an extreme case, win control of the Senate. It would not be an easy win. Then they need to face another 2014 scenario in 2018.

    I would be between the two of you on how much support Sanders can get in the Senate. However, most of his ideas would not make it out of committee because his numbers have never added up. Then you have to consider the hostile House. As President, Sanders might get some things around the edges, but not the bulk of his agenda.

    It's funny you should mention Carter. I think Carter is his best comparison. Both are ideologues, honorable but with a practicality impairment.

    J
     
  16. luiz

    luiz Trendy Revolutionary

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    Re: Sanders' odds of winning.

    I've long believed that bookmakers know better than pollsters what the real odds are (they look into polling, of course). Here's what a popular betting site says on the odds of each candidate becoming POTUS (I converted the odds into their implied probabilities with an online converter, but I assume it looks correct):

    -Hillary: 57.89%
    -Trump: 18.18%
    -Rubio: 16.67%
    -Cruz: 12.50%
    -Bush: 5.26%
    -Sanders: 5.26%

    So I'd say there's not a lot of confidence that Bernie can win among people who actually put money where their mouths are.
     
  17. Archbob

    Archbob Ancient CFC Guardian

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    5.26% is about the same chance he has at winning the nomination. If he wins the nomination, h can win the white house.
     
  18. luiz

    luiz Trendy Revolutionary

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    Since those are betting probabilities, however, they overstate the real probabilities (because the house must make a profit - note that they add up to more than 100%).

    So in reality the "implied implied" probability of Sanders becoming POTUS must be lower than 5.26%. The real news here is that even compared to Trump, who IMO has no chance whatsoever of becoming President, Sanders is an underdog. He is tied with Bush, whose campaign is widely considered to be sinking.
     
  19. ZeletDude

    ZeletDude The Lion

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    The youth vote does not matter as much as people think it does. Older folks vote at way higher percentages than younger voters. As it stands Hillary /does/ have the minority vote under her belt. Sanders appeals to white liberals, which are becoming more and more of a minority within the Democratic Party.
     
  20. _random_

    _random_ Jewel Runner

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    They are, however, conveniently well-concentrated in Iowa and New Hampshire. Right now, I think Sanders' biggest issue among non-white voters is name recognition. With a boost in media attention, it's conceivable (although certainly not inevitable) that he could capture a decent portion of the black vote.
     

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