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Why can't military units from two civs at peace, stack?

Discussion in 'Civ6 - General Discussions' started by Stringer1313, Sep 8, 2016.

  1. Stringer1313

    Stringer1313 Emperor

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    I raised this in the Builder Blocks Apostle thread but thought it would go off topic. Why can't military units from multiple civs at peace stack? It seems a limited exception for 1upt could be made for that. It just seems ridiculous that you can't move through allied territory b/c they have too many military units.

    Even without 1upt, I THINK all prior civs did not allow this to happen (am I wrong). Even under a non-1upt system I don't understand why they wouldn't allow this. If war is declared, then the pieces can all go back to home territory or whatever.
     
  2. Josephias

    Josephias Emperor

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    Simply, for the same reason two of your units cannot stack either. System is prepared to take into account one unit (of each type/layer) per tile. No more.

    (Correct me if I'm wrong, but I'm positive you can move accross enemy units if you are at peace. It's just you cannot "land" in a tile they are occupying. right?).
     
  3. Mort_Q

    Mort_Q Prince

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    If you are in the same tile, and not a corps or army (which is a single "unit") and are attacked, you'd need a whole new UI and system to deal with it.

    Read, it ain't worth the bother.
     
  4. Lucius_

    Lucius_ King

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    Just wanted to say in multiple hundreds of hours playing CiV, I have never, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever, had this even remotely, no where close, not even in the slightest bit, not even once, had this issue before. I agree that would be really annoying, but thankfully it's not an issue.
     
  5. bbbt

    bbbt Deity

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    I've had this sometimes with ships (especially triremes as they have limited movement options) and very occasionally with military units. It's always the city states, as they are the ones that cram units in.

    Not in that they block you permanently, but in that they either block you temporarily, or end up forcing off a road/taking a longer pathfinding route.

    Citizens are really the biggest annoyance (hey there mountain city state, I know you want that road built to you, but you're blocking my worker's only route!)
     
  6. Miravlix

    Miravlix King

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    Sorry to ruin your get off your lawn movement, but you do realize that trade routes create roads and isn't blocked right?
     
  7. m15a

    m15a Emperor

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    What happens if war is declared is one of the big issues, I think. The solution that stacked pieces go back to their respective home territories has some issues. First, what if there is no space in the home territory? Second, what if one of the civs' territory was all the way across the map? Wouldn't it be inconvenient to have your units all teleported across the map when someone declared war on you? Third, how does the computer decide what territory to teleport your units to (if you have some cities that are distant from each other?

    And these issues are much more complicated if units get teleported no matter who goes to war. But there are other complications if civs not at war with each other can stack their units when one of them is at war with a third civ - what if the third civ wants to attack an enemy unit that is in a stack?
     
  8. jimbobduggar

    jimbobduggar Chieftain

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    I agree its a coding issue.
     
  9. ashvin.l

    ashvin.l ITendToLoseALot

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    Actually, I have had this issue many many times. Most common cases are

    1. Worker building a road to City state blocked by City state's units
    2. Missionary blocked by City-state/CIv's units when you are simply exploring or spreading religion.

    The biggest grouse I have is that, Civilian units cannot even cross over another unit belonging to a city state or Civ independent of the current status. This makes movements extremely clunky. At the very least, I expect the civilian units to be able to pass through other civilian/military units.
     
  10. Janskey

    Janskey Prince

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    Indeed.:lol:

     
  11. Makenshi

    Makenshi Ahoy, ye salty dogs!

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    Play Scramble for Africa in Civ 5 and you'll see why it is so important and desirable that units from different civs, even at peace, can neither stack nor easily pass through each other. Settler block is the real deal, can't win that scenario without it.

    EDIT: the screenshot above is from Into the Renaissance. Best scenario ever, but dan it IS anoying to move around in Europe... still, between that and IA freely passing through me to mess my game, I rather have the traffic jam.
     
  12. LDiCesare

    LDiCesare Deity

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    I didn't play much V but ran into the issue several times. YMMV.
     
  13. stagnate

    stagnate Warlord

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    At one point in CivIII or IV (can't remember) it was an exploit to declare war on someone to teleport your units home. Teleporting creates a lot of complexity and isn't a good solution.
     
  14. juanpavo

    juanpavo Warlord

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    This was pointed out in another thread. There are already algorithms in Civ5 for where to move/teleport units when open borders expired, and these mostly were fine (i.e. not aware of any complaints). Why not use the same mechanism?
     
  15. BrokenBokken

    BrokenBokken Warlord

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    This sounds terrible to me. Screw having consistent rules, we'll just have exceptions for every single scenario.
     
  16. Lucius_

    Lucius_ King

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    Honestly, wasn't thinking about city states much with my original comment; however, what I quoted was regarding it being ridiculous that you cannot move through allied territory because of too many units. I read "cannot" to mean impossible. I stand by my original statement, even regarding city states. I have never had a situation where it was 100% not possible to build roads to a city state or spread religion to a city state with a missionary/prophet. It's doable, not impossible. Most of the time it's not even difficult, but I concede there are rare placed city states where terrain features makes it more difficult.
     
  17. playshogi

    playshogi Emperor

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    Can't coding issues be solved by ---- coding?

    I've been blocked many times from using my own roads in Civ5, within my own territory, because I stupidly allowed open borders with an AI. Another instance, I could not perform a trade mission with a city-state with my Great Merchant because I could not successfully guess which hex would be left vacant of the city-state randomly moving its units every turn. Another instance, trying to explore a friendly AI's territory with my scout using open borders because 67% of the hexes are filled with units. Then there are the times, when you would like to attack a city with a tank, but are blocked by a neutral missionary. People used to howl about a spearman killing a tank, but not a peep out of anyone's tank being blocked by a missionary.
     
  18. jimbobduggar

    jimbobduggar Chieftain

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    of course it can be fixed by coding, I referred to it as a coding issue because I think they must have looked at it and thought it would be to much work to fix. try to think more about your responses in the future.
     
  19. m15a

    m15a Emperor

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    The issues I listed don't all apply to this solution, but there are still some issues. The main question is: when do units have to be teleported? Or, to put it another way, when are units allowed to be stacked?

    If units can be stacked from civ A and civ B as long as they aren't at war with each other, then teleporting to outside of the borders would be not so different than what has happened in previous civ games: not that big of a deal since although one side might lose some units as a result, that's the price of being sneak attacked. But then there needs to be a new system for what occurs when civ C declares war on civ A (or B or both). Can civ C capture both units sharing a tile? Can they choose to capture civ A's unit and leave civ B's alone? Or are stacked units immune to bring captured?

    If units can't be stacked when any civ is at war, or even when either civ A or B are at war with anyone else, then it'll be more annoying to have your units teleported. If civ C declares war on civ A, civ B will still have their units teleported for a situation that has nothing to do with civ B. Maybe they'll lose some units to barbarians if they are particularly unlucky. But at least it'll disrupt whatever they were doing with those units.

    There also still needs to be a new algorithm for what happens in neutral territory if units are allowed to be stacked in neutral territory.
     
  20. LDiCesare

    LDiCesare Deity

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    I consider taking 5 or 6 turns to move forward one hex is as good as impossible.
     

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