Discussion in 'Civ4 - Fall from Heaven' started by phizuol, Nov 10, 2009.
I'm just curious why recon units can't pillage. Is there a flavor or mechanic/balance reason for it?
Mechanics wise, it'd make Recon unbalanced in general; recon can already be very respectable fighters on the defensive, have naturally higher movement, and are the greatest class for invisibility advantages. Pillage would make outright conquest by force needless; send faster groups of recon to pillage the countryside and destroy the other person's economy, and the economic advantage would be ridiculous even without attacking cities.
You can do that with melee, but they're slower. You can do it with horses, but that's sort of their big purpose.
I actually think recon units could use the help and being able to pillage would make them a bit more useful. Maybe it is too much to let scouts pillage but why shouldn't hunters be able to? Horsemen get the same strength and better movement but they can still pillage. The only thing that hunters have is hawks, and you really only need one of them in a stack. In my opinion, anything to make the recon line a little more useable is a good thing. They seem to be the weakest overall now, at least when facing the AI.
Don't forget that recon units also get defensive bonuses where horsemen do not. Still, I was also thinking it doesn't quite fit that faster units can pillage while hunters can't. Recon units have a penalty against attacking cities too, which seems to lend it more to a pillaging role - which it can't fill.
Yeah good point about the defensive bonuses.
I really noticed the lack of pillage when I tried to play a recon-based game as the svaltar. I just felt ridiculous dragging mobility promoted warriors along with my stack just so that I could pillage.
why would you not use nyxkins?
I've seen and read countless scenes with horsemen throwing torches into thatched roof villages and burning down fields, but I can't recall a single mention of the lone group of stealthy rangers sneaking through the woods, sneaking into town, burning it down, and sneaking away.
Seems pretty reasonable to me.
Also, keep in mind another huge strength of the recon line is the lack of anti-recon promos - that's an extra 80% strength your opponent doesn't have. Recon is huge.
Recon units can get mask promotions, especially assassins (nightwatch -> assassin), which would allow them to pillage without diplo penalty.
You can already do that by summoning Mistforms.
But Mistiforms require an endgame tech or a hero; plus their temporary nature means that if you don't have open borders for your archmages, they can only pillage near the border.
Shadows with the ability to pillage would be impossible for the poor AI to stop.
Yeah I can see how that would be useful in multiplayer but against the AI it doesn't tend to make much difference since they don't really get those anti promotions very much anyways. But if the AI did start getting those more often and spamming combat less than recon might become better.
Good point. That definitely does sound like it would be a pretty invincible strategy against the AI.
The biggest issue for me is the Invisibility promotions that recon units can end up with. It's bad enough having to worry about losing my units to Shadows. At least there I can station a unit with Guardsman in my most important stacks. Losing my improvements to invisible hidden-nationality commando units is just unacceptable - especially since I'm not going to be able to defend every tile in my empire.
Losing 3-4 tile improvements per turn with no reasonable defense possible is just a nightmare that no one should have to face.
Recon also dont have a promo against them like melee, archers and horsemen do.
I could see that be useful in multiplayer, although I'm not sure since I never play multiplayer. But in single player, I just haven't seen the AI picking that many of the "anti" promotions. Mostly I see them just stock up on combat promotions instead. If the AI took more of the shock/cover/formation promotions it might help to make recon more useful than they are now.
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