Why can't ships be sunk by fighters/bombers?

[Hoticehunter]

Is it just balance issues? If so, I'm calling BS on that. I want my bombers to be able to sink ships.

 

[niels251]

why can a spearman defeat an tank?

 

[thadian]

i think there is something you can change that will let it happen. im not sure where or what, sorry.

I do agree that bombers should be able to sink frigrates... i think it is the way it is to encourage the player to build more ships instead of just using "stack of bombers" for coastal defense.it can be chaos. in the modern era i dont even bombard enemy ships that have destroyers present unless i see transports with them. ill sac all my planes to sink those

 

[thadian]

its like having to be next to a city to bombard, and not being able to "bombard the field" with artillery units. i can see why it was changed from Civ3, and while i miss it, i also think this installation of Civ is better off without it

 

[niels251]

i you made bombers able to destroy ships and other units the game wouldn't be much fun anymore. Now if you play the late game you cannot win with only one type of unit.

 

[Cytral]

I think a spearman does have a chance to beat a tank.

al he needs is to get on the tank


arty was crap in civ3

 

[PibbZ]

You can edit your CIV4UnitInfos.xml and change the following value:

<iAirCombatLimit>50</iAirCombatLimit>

to

<iAirCombatLimit>100</iAirCombatLimit>

This is the modifier in %, for how much damage the unit can do. Obviously, remove 100% of the targets hp means that he will die

 

[PibbZ]

arty was crap in civ3

Artillery in Civ3 was amazingly cool. I really miss the ability to use them as a defensive matter, and the ability to bombard improvements.

 

[Cytral]

i like'm now better

but i understand your point

 

[TheMeInTeam]

why can a spearman defeat an tank?

Why can an animal defeat any military unit? IMO it's far less plausible that a group of men capable of taking or burning down cities would EVER die to a lone animal. I actually think a spearman beating a tank is MORE plausible (not very though, supposedly this is scaled so that there is many spears vs many tanks, but maybe the spears got the jump at night or something and killed them while out of the tanks), yet nobody complains that a stray panther that some of us could probably beat single-handedly with a club can slaughter that same group of men 50% of the time in open land (never mind that it should actually be more effective in the woods or jungle, and still at roughly .0000000000000001% chance of beating any number of humans above 3 even then, and would almost never attack on top of that).

Barb animals are a stupid idea, and their implementation is even worse.

On topic - they made air unable to kill naval power for balance. It's along the same lines of allowing obsolete units to win battles - otherwise the first person to a new tech would win almost instantly.

 

[TigerBotHesh]

I've always considered the animals to be "forces of nature," not animals per se. People could fall prey to illness, food poisoning, accidents, starvation, etc. There's plenty of ways to die, especially in a pre-Bronze Age society, and the animals are just a representation of those perils.

 

[TigerBotHesh]

You can edit your CIV4UnitInfos.xml and change the following value:

to


This is the modifier in %, for how much damage the unit can do. Obviously, remove 100% of the targets hp means that he will die

I've become a game-modifying fiend since I learned how to make a few 'tweaks' to my game on these boards. I'll add this one to my collection. Thanks for the info.

ETA: See PibbZ post #7 for the info. Something went wrong in the quote.

 

[Rusty Edge]

Why can an animal defeat any military unit? IMO it's far less plausible that a group of men capable of taking or burning down cities would EVER die to a lone animal. I actually think a spearman beating a tank is MORE plausible (not very though, supposedly this is scaled so that there is many spears vs many tanks, but maybe the spears got the jump at night or something and killed them while out of the tanks), yet nobody complains that a stray panther that some of us could probably beat single-handedly with a club can slaughter that same group of men 50% of the time in open land (never mind that it should actually be more effective in the woods or jungle, and still at roughly .0000000000000001% chance of beating any number of humans above 3 even then, and would almost never attack on top of that).

Barb animals are a stupid idea, and their implementation is even worse.

They attack because they have rabies. They bite a few soldiers in the process and slobber in a few water holes nearby. Pretty soon, most of the regiment is coming down with a mysterious disease and dies.

 

[TheMeInTeam]

They attack because they have rabies. They bite a few soldiers in the process and slobber in a few water holes nearby. Pretty soon, most of the regiment is coming down with a mysterious disease and dies.

Man, the old world was rough. No wonder the spears that survived could beat tanks.

 

[thadian]

I like it - think about it, your people are just now settling in their town, your exploring. What are the first cave paintings often in reference to? Animals! Migration routes (for hunters to use) - danger signs (bears this way), and other things of the like. Many pagan religions placed animals on a pedestal as being sacred.

How did humans take the earth? Who did we take it from? ANIMALS. As we built and settled, some animals became inconvenient. bears, wolves, eagles and other things have disturbed our oldest ancestors just like tigers and alligators. Therefore, we had to clear them out, and while doing so, we met other tribes of people - some who used the animals for resources and others who were their prey.

Some of the people were fairly civil (civ's) and others viewed the established cities as both wonderous and threatening. (these people settled on the river, and all use the restroom south of the river, so we can't drink south of this place or we get sick) and for one reason or another got really really pissed and thus were "barbarians".

I know there is more to it than this, but i think it makes sense. History is filled with legends of men proving manhood by killing a bear with a sword - and many others are filled with people who had no such luck and fed the bear for the next would-be warrior.
I like barbarian animals. i almost wish there were more variety and powers. Bears should get the forest promotion for free, for example.

 

[Hoticehunter]

You can edit your CIV4UnitInfos.xml and change the following value:

to


This is the modifier in %, for how much damage the unit can do. Obviously, remove 100% of the targets hp means that he will die

Would there be a way to set it only for naval units? I can understand the limit on ground units, but naval units? That just doesn't make any sense. Plus, most naval units get a natural defense against air units with their chance to intercept. I think it's only fair (not to mention more plausible) that naval units take more risk to get that defense.

 

[thadian]

Again - its to make sure that coastal air fortresses dont negate a navy. If you commit to forts and airforce, you would be untouchable except by someone sharing your continent. How would you like to send in a navy that gets shot down by spammed air force? before you even get to land. I don't know if the AI uses the air patrol function to know your sending ships over but if they do, then your ships would obviously not make it very far.

I agree that it was a cool option in Civ3, because battleships could destroy all of their improvements. But with that ability gone, there was no more real reason to be able to kill navy with airforce. realistic? yes. Well, it's also realistic that spies should be able to nuke enemy cities and mess up their nuke plants for a meltdown (it was either civ3 or CTP that you could do this) - but that also has been seemingly removed.

I also noticed that if air-force could kill navy, even with interceptions, a navy would be forced to promote only against airplanes when possible. it's not like the evasion percentage applies to navy bombardments, so they would have to be given that option to re-balance it.

 

[Rusty Edge]

Again - its to make sure that coastal air fortresses dont negate a navy. If you commit to forts and airforce, you would be untouchable except by someone sharing your continent. How would you like to send in a navy that gets shot down by spammed air force? before you even get to land. I don't know if the AI uses the air patrol function to know your sending ships over but if they do, then your ships would obviously not make it very far.

I agree that it was a cool option in Civ3, because battleships could destroy all of their improvements. But with that ability gone, there was no more real reason to be able to kill navy with airforce. realistic? yes. Well, it's also realistic that spies should be able to nuke enemy cities and mess up their nuke plants for a meltdown (it was either civ3 or CTP that you could do this) - but that also has been seemingly removed.

I also noticed that if air-force could kill navy, even with interceptions, a navy would be forced to promote only against airplanes when possible. it's not like the evasion percentage applies to navy bombardments, so they would have to be given that option to re-balance it.

The Lopez made an air forces mod which allowed for aircraft to get a complete kill against a ship with a torpedo promotion and a couple hits. I think it's in Wolfshanze's Mod, and that may be the only 3.17 compatible version at this time.

It's also in History in the Making. My naval task forces normally have a squandron on intercept to protect against the possibillity.

 

[thadian]

very nice, i will have to try them, i keep hearing about Wolf's mod.

I am not saying the feature doesn't belong, only if it is implemented in a good manner. Torpedo promotion...

This, has impressed me and i like it a lot. Maybe this guy can copy that area of the code to enable torpedo promotions instead of air-forcekilling everything?

 

[Rusty Edge]

very nice, i will have to try them, i keep hearing about Wolf's mod.

I am not saying the feature doesn't belong, only if it is implemented in a good manner. Torpedo promotion...

This, has impressed me and i like it a lot. Maybe this guy can copy that area of the code to enable torpedo promotions instead of air-forcekilling everything?

The Lopez wrote many mod programs, but has been missing in action for years. Maybe he got a job with a gaming company and had to sign a non-compete. I hope it's something like that.

Grave updated the programs. He put them in HitM, a complex modpack. He is active military and no longer has time to support The Lopez's modcomponents. He hasn't been here since the 3.17 update , so HitM is strictly 3.14.

So, if you are 3.17 and want to try a full flavor mod that doesn't alter BTS too much, go for Wolfeshanze's Mod. He might tell you to try it his way, because no-one has tried it who didn't like it.