Why can't we discuss matters relating to piracy?

[tycoonist]

PLEASE NOTE
I am not saying that people should be allowed to make posts along the lines of: "Here's a great torrent for civ5".

However, discussing action taken against piracy (and in turn, action taken against anti-piracy) should surely be allowed. I mean, we don't forbid discussions about other illegal practices as long as they stay discussions and not advice into how to pursue these illegal activities. (for example, we are allowed to discuss whether MJ should be legalised, or actions taken in the war on drugs). Why the different stance on piracy?

 

[ainwood]

There is a fine line: Discussion == OK, advocacy != OK. That goes for drugs, piracy or any other illegal activity.

There have been lots of discussions about the pros and cons of dealing with piracy or whether it is "acceptable", but when its gets specific with people saying "I am going to pirate (this game)", then that is where we will draw the line.

 

[Lord Baal]

What do you mean by "advocacy," ainwood? I've seen people advocate piracy and the legalisation of marijuana on the boards many times. Do you mean encouraging people to break the law, rather than advocating changes to the law?

 

[Bill3000]

What do you mean by "advocacy," ainwood? I've seen people advocate piracy and the legalisation of marijuana on the boards many times. Do you mean encouraging people to break the law, rather than advocating changes to the law?

From what I've seen, yes. As Immanuel Kant famously said in his essay "What is Enlightenment?" - "Argue as much as you will, and about what you will, but obey!"

 

[Zelig]

What do you mean by "advocacy," ainwood? I've seen people advocate piracy and the legalisation of marijuana on the boards many times. Do you mean encouraging people to break the law, rather than advocating changes to the law?

The inconsistency is probably due to the relation cfc has with Firaxis/2K, and the (lack of) relation cfc has with the DEA or Altria.

 

[Moss]

I could be wrong, but the difference as I see it is this:

You can say that you want certain laws regarding piracy to be changed (assuming you provide actual reasons)...but you cannot direct someone to a no-cd crack or to a torrent download, etc...

 

[Ondskan]

The problem is that not only piracy is frowned upon but the discussion of codemodification and hacking of the products you and I have payed for despite the fact that condeming such discussion infringes on the rights of the consumer at the benifit of serving under some technicality put in place only to stop pirating. 3


Such as a guy discussing how to modify Alpha Centauri code.

 

[Padma]

If you want to discuss how to engage in illegal activities (and 'hacking' copyrighted code is illegal), you are welcome to go elsewhere. If you do it here, you will face consequences.

Your supposed motivation does not enter into the picture. If it is illegal, it is illegal.

 

[Ondskan]

I'd say the advocation of for example or terrorism or in some other countries the advocation of homosexuality and drug use is actually "more" illegal while the advocation, discussion and even in depth guides to modifying code which you have bought is not illegal in any country.

You're the admin, all I'm saying is that you're lame.

Btw still waiting for an answer to the PM I sent you.


edit: Please don't get me wrong. You're most certainly not lame for only this. Actually if it was only a few tidbits here and there you wouldn't be lame. But it's the way this place has been run for the last few years...getting more and more extreme on all fronts. (I've been around longer than my account would suggest)

 

[Zelig]

Am I allowed to post a detailed guide to homosexuality?

 

[Moss]

Am I allowed to post a detailed guide to homosexuality?

Would that be possible without breaking other forum rules (no pornography for one)?

 

[Padma]

Ondskan: You are correct. If you have "bought the code", modifying it is not illegal. However, for any game produced by Firaxis (and thus one of the games this forum is dedicated to), you have NOT bought the code. You have purchased a LICENSE to RUN that code on some certain machines. The code itself is copyrighted, and you do not have legal permission to modify it.

And I'll answer your PM once I figure out what it is about.

 

[Ondskan]

I do understand that I have not bought the code as in the rights to a book by just buying the book. But I damn well have bought the book and if I want to spill ink over it I am going to do that.

As mentioned some corporations are trying to make it criminal for me to spill ink over my book (and in the courts they sometimes win and sometimes don't), still the discussion of these things is not illegal in any way or form ,especially compared to other discussions allowed here.

As such I belive it should be allowed for you not to look lame.


My PM was about if you've ever given a detailed answer as to why infractions won't be made public?

 

[.Shane.]

The code itself is copyrighted, and you do not have legal permission to modify it.

Its an interesting line. I've installed a lot of things to Civ (most from this site) that under other circumstances or if the game had a publisher w/ a different attitude toward such things would be considered a violation of copyright.

 

[Padma]

It bothers us not one whit if you think it makes us look lame. The law is the law, whether you or I agree with it or not.

As for the infractions, the only answer you need is it's not going to happen. All three admins agree on that point. It's been discussed to death here in Site Feedback lately.

 

[Moss]

Its an interesting line. I've installed a lot of things to Civ (most from this site) that under other circumstances or if the game had a publisher w/ a different attitude toward such things would be considered a violation of copyright.

I think the difference lies in that Civ allows for people to create mods, unless I'm missing your point?

 

[Padma]

Its an interesting line. I've installed a lot of things to Civ (most from this site) that under other circumstances or if the game had a publisher w/ a different attitude toward such things would be considered a violation of copyright.

But everything you can get from this site has been 'authorized' by the publisher. (We do remove anything they object to on legal grounds.)

 

[Ondskan]

It bothers us not one whit if you think it makes us look lame. The law is the law, whether you or I agree with it or not.

As for the infractions, the only answer you need is it's not going to happen. All three admins agree on that point. It's been discussed to death here in Site Feedback lately.

Oh the lame part was just to spice up my post. What about the argument itself? Do you feel you should take part in actions that limit my ability to spill ink on my book if that was to be made illegal?

Even the discussion on how to spill ink on my book - which under no circumstances is illegal even today. Why then is it forbidden to even discuss the matter on these boards?

 

[Moss]

Oh the lame part was just to spice up my post. What about the argument itself? Do you feel you should take part in actions that limit my ability to spill ink on my book if that was to be made illegal?

Even the discussion on how to spill ink on my book - which under no circumstances is illegal even today. Why then is it forbidden to even discuss the matter on these boards?

I'm going to cut straight through your analogy if you don't mind...Piracy is illegal in many parts of the world and especially in the US (where this forum is based), and while discussing how to do the act may not be illegal, is the intent of discussing the act ever anything but to learn how to pirate or where to get pirated copies? Not usually, therefore it shouldn't be allowed because one can safely assume that illegal activity will follow from the discussion.

 

[Padma]

Oh the lame part was just to spice up my post. What about the argument itself? Do you feel you should take part in actions that limit my ability to spill ink on my book if that was to be made illegal?

Even the discussion on how to spill ink on my book - which under no circumstances is illegal even today. Why then is it forbidden to even discuss the matter on these boards?

Copyright law has not kept pace with technology. If corporations actually made it illegal to spill ink on your books, then we would not allow discussions here concerning how to do so.

(And actually, a more accurate example would not be spilling ink, but re-writing the book, And there are laws about that. Of course, you do actually own your own copy of a book. You can do what you please with it.)