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Why do alliances require constant renewal all the time?

Discussion in 'Civ6 - General Discussions' started by SupremacyKing2, Feb 20, 2019.

  1. SupremacyKing2

    SupremacyKing2 Warlord

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    It seems like unnecessary micromanagement to make alliances auto cancel and force the player to renew them manually over and over again. Why not just make alliances permanent by default and let one side cancel through the diplomacy screen when they want out?
     
  2. MaryKB

    MaryKB Warlord

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    I don't feel they'd be the same. Now when I sign an Alliance, I know it's good for 30 turns or so, and I can count on that guarantee. If my ally could just cancel any time and declare war on me, I don't understand what the point of such a treaty would even be?
     
  3. Disgustipated

    Disgustipated Warlord

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    The only good thing about this is it allows you to switch your cultural alliances around if your cultural ally forward settles you. Otherwise I tend to keep my alliances the same the entire game.

    I'm still finding the AI less likely to declare friendship if you are close to victory. This is still a thing in this game.
     
  4. SupremacyKing2

    SupremacyKing2 Warlord

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    No, I am not suggesting that you coudl cancel anytime. There should be a minimum time limit before you are allowed to cancel. This would be great at preventing the player from exploiting the alliance and then backstabbing the AI. Also, you could put certain requirements on how low the relationship needs to fall before the AI will cancel. You could even allow the AI to denounce you once and not cancel the alliance. If the player knew the exact conditions that would cause the AI to cancel an alliance, then they could take steps to maintain the alliance if they wanted to keep it going.
     
    Karmah, Dearmad and TheMeInTeam like this.
  5. UWHabs

    UWHabs Warlord

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    Yeah, same for declarations of friendship. One of the issues I hate right now is say I'm friends/allied with someone now. When that alliance comes up for renewal, I have to think hard whether I want to commit for the next 30 turns. Would have been nicer to just keep having it going until one side opts out. Basically they're for a minimum of 30 turns, but will continue after that until one side opts out.
     
    iamliberal and Forster like this.
  6. Dearmad

    Dearmad Dead weight

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  7. Duuk

    Duuk Doom-Sayer Supporter

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    It would be good if you started alliances and then they stayed until someone opted out and THEN it said "X ally has opted out and the alliance will end in 10 turns" or whatever.
     
  8. Goodenuf

    Goodenuf Chieftain

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    I dunno; there's something to be said about tracking an alliance's timeline then backstabbing them right as it expires.
     
  9. Forster

    Forster Chieftain

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    I don't know. I like the fact that it lasts 30 turns. I would be okay if opting out required a 5 or 10 turn delay before it becomes effective. Similarly, at the end of the 30 turns, it would auto renew with the same requirements to opt out as the first 30. But, at the end of the 30 turns either side can refuse to renew with no delay required, so you could still back stab you best friend.
     
  10. DemonMaster

    DemonMaster A.K.A. Fenhorn

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    I am ok the way it is, but one thing I don't like with alliances in civ 6 is that it is a little bit to easy to get them.
     
    Julia97 likes this.
  11. teakbois

    teakbois Chieftain

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    That you have to renew them isnt a big deal, its how tedious it is to do so.
     
  12. Forster

    Forster Chieftain

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    Too easy - not in the first four or five eras.
     
  13. Kibikus

    Kibikus Chieftain

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    There used to be a button in R&F to Renew Alliance when there was a certain number of turns remaining (I think it was 5), that button is gone now. And actually it didn't seem to work for me anyway, the AIs always refused to renew, but then when the alliance expired and I offered them to do it again, they agreed.

    An easy solution would be to have a notification say 5 turns before the alliance expires, and at that point have the option to renew alliance (and have it actually work properly).
     
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  14. Aldor

    Aldor Chieftain

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    I don't like the extra steps of having to re-declare friendship, then re-start the alliance. I'd prefer if there was a diplo screen coming up once the duration is over and you could talk with the leader about those options: Renew alliance / renegotiate (to change alliance type) / End alliance.
     
  15. Elhoim

    Elhoim Iron Tower Studio Dev

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    THIS. Also one issue with the current system is that the second the alliance ends they complain about your troops on their borders, which is especially annoying if you had a military alliance with them. Plus even if you get an alliance and open borders after the request, you still have to move your troops or the promise is broken... Jesus, Firaxis...
     
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  16. MaryKB

    MaryKB Warlord

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    I do agree I find that so very annoying how you have to go into all your diplomatic contacts and make friends with everyone again, and then re-request your alliances. And I get especially annoyed when you've got like five alliances all expiring on one turn, lol. I wish you'd get something like in Civ 5, where when your treaty's expiring your ally will contact you on his or her turn and say "This deal strengthened out relationship, would you like to renew?" and you don't have any of those errors of resigning (also like you said, annoying troop requests!)

    I still really don't like thinking about being able to cancel, even after a set number of turns. For me, those treaty limits are really important part of the terms, and when you're signing an alliance (or friendship) you need to think "Do I really want to be locked into this for 30 or so turns?", and taking that away just totally erases the point in my opinion. I really love how they are now, I just do wish you have a better way of renewing them.

    I do like playing on Standard maps with seven other civilizations, and I'm often allied with five of them. But I enjoy playing that way, I love everyone being my friend and knowing I'm not going to war, so I can just do my thing. Even on larger maps when I add extra civilizations, I find security in knowing what my alliances are.
     
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  17. Equilin

    Equilin Chieftain

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    pretty sure it's there so AI can backstab you more properly, as i think ai cannot "do a diplomacy --> choose to opt out" while also preparing for war.
     
  18. EgonSpengler

    EgonSpengler Warlord

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    This particular issue with Alliances doesn't stick in my craw, but I can relate to it: I'd like it if Trade Routes just continued until I decide to move them.
     
  19. Uberfrog

    Uberfrog Warlord

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    I think the 30 turn cycle is there to allow the AI to reassess their opinion of you. It's not by accident that the Alliance and DoF (which are positive relationship modifiers) expire at the same time. If you have changed governments, or done some naughty warmongering in the meantime, their relationship towards you will sour. Then they may resist the new DoF, removing your chance at a renewed Alliance.

    It can be a bit of a pain to have to renew it, but there's plenty of other stuff you have to renew more regularly. At least we have a queue now to multi-stack city projects!
     
  20. Disgustipated

    Disgustipated Warlord

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    My current game I purposely started my alliances on different turns. It gets so hard to keep track of who had what alliance sometimes.

    Though the drawback is it is more difficult to switch alliances around. I find in my current game Pacachouti really forward settled into my territory with the cultural alliance. I can't switch alliances very easily with another civ since they are on different turns. But I will be letting the cultural alliance lapse. This is the last time I make a cultural alliance. He was putting cities right up on my border, even if it meant he didn't even have an inner ring on one side. I was so mad at the Incas. If I do a cultural alliance in the future, it will only be after I'm done fully expanding. Not one turn before. I have pretty much had it with cultural alliances at this point. It just drives me crazy. Though I admit it did help protect me against Eleanor in a couple of games. I always seem to start next to her.
     

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