Why do americans celebrate genocide on thanxsgiving?

[Masada]

Sorry, that point was rather poorly made.

Personally I believe in Polynesian contact. In the Popol Vuh, the sacred book of the Maya, we have enshrined in the texts the journeys of who our ancestors got to the Maya world. According to the texts it appears the majority of the extreme ancestral Maya came from the Bering Strait area (A land of constant cold ashes) but according to the Popol Vuh a good amount of people came from the sea and that some people had even gotten there before either of these 2 groups (from the sea or Bering Strait) got there. Differences in religious structures between several tribes (including mine with our primary bat god) show imo a more pacific influence.

Of course its distant ancestry the portion of the Popol Vuh I am referring to - but remember, our astronomers long realized the Maya world didn't lie at the median/center of the earth - part of the astronomy and math can be traced back to that portion of the Popol Vuh to examine our origins.

The basic problem is that Eastern Polynesia was only settled from 1000CE onwards while Rapa Nui the closest Polynesian outpost to South America was only settled in about 1200CE. So unless your people's origins can be placed sometime after 1200CE, the chronology just does not work.

As for more recent examples - the one I always like to trot out is the example of Chachapoyan mummies. About half a decade ago a group of Chachapoyan mummies were found embalmed in resins of plants only able to be found in Papua New Guinea and the western pacific islands - certainly never in the Peruvian highlands or Amazonian cloud forests and jungles.

Can I please have a peer reviewed source for this very bold series of claims.

The Inca emperor who made that trip was Tupac Yupanqui, and I'm almost sure he arrived to Rapanui and Mangareva, buildings like Ahu Vinapu proof his presence in those islands.

Please provide a peer reviewed source for this claim. I think it's also been conclusively established that Ahu Vinapu likely predates the foundation of the Inca Empire. A related question: do you think Great Zimbabwe was constructed by non-blacks?

EDIT: Wait, wait, wait. I'm not debating with zombie Thor Heyerdahl am I?

 

[caketastydelish]

I think Polynesia is a solid choice for 'first to discover america' because they are the only civ able to cross through the ocean immediately.

 

[Zipa_DH]

Please provide a peer reviewed source for this claim. I think it's also been conclusively established that Ahu Vinapu likely predates the foundation of the Inca Empire. A related question: do you think Great Zimbabwe was constructed by non-blacks?

How can you prove Ahu Vinapu was built before the Incan empire?...anyway, my sources are mainly in spanish, one of them is "Tupac Yupanqui, descubridor de Oceanía" by José Antonio del Busto...he wrote this book based in the texts of Pedro Sarmiento de Gamboa, Martín de Murúa and Miguel Cabello Valboa, spanish cronistas of the conquest of Perú. Thor Heyerdahl just proved the trip could be completely possible with the inca ships of that date

A related question: do you think Great Zimbabwe was constructed by non-blacks?

I see what do you try to do here, but not, I think Great Zimbabwe was built by black africans, and I don't think Rapanui people were unable to build Ahu Vinapu, I say that because the style, the architecture and the techniques used to build it, are basically the same that Incas used...

 

[Gucumatz]

Sorry, that point was rather poorly made.



The basic problem is that Eastern Polynesia was only settled from 1000CE onwards while Rapa Nui the closest Polynesian outpost to South America was only settled in about 1200CE. So unless your people's origins can be placed sometime after 1200CE, the chronology just does not work.


Can I please have a peer reviewed source for this very bold series of claims.

Sure I'll post a source on it in a second. By the way did you ever get a chance to look at the paper about the obsidian hydration figures I posted earlier?
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The dates on Rapa Nui settlement of course vary , some have theorized earlier waves of people were not able to settle and in the end - died out. As for my people, it was mentioned only a portion of the Maya people came from across the sea - particularly only 2 tribes, ours the Kaqchikel [Who had established sites on the west coast and later inland] and another who also had earlier established coastal sites. According to the Quiche texts we were supposed to have actually come later than any other Maya peoples and we proceeded to "steal fire and knowledge" from them [The Quiche].

Now you could possibly argue that this passage in the Popol Vuh is a bit of Quiche bias trying to legitimize our feuding (we had arisen to become their primary rivals in the south and in fact had become slaves to them until we rose against them at one point to re-establish our kingdom), but then you can also look at the Kaqchikel annals where we see similar texts regarding similar sea origins.

 

[Gucumatz]

Ok so I am unable to find a paper for the Chachapoyan-Papua New Guinea resin but I did find the article from the University of York which released it:

http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=...roK6Ahp2DdurcK4A7edqKPg&bvm=bv.49967636,d.eWU

On page 9 - The discovery was made in 2008, according to the scholars and researchers from York they were able to prove that the Chachapoya at the very least did embalm - I am guessing continuing research is being done on the Polynesian - Chachapoyan link

 

[schlaufuchs]

I think Polynesia is a solid choice for 'first to discover america' because they are the only civ able to cross through the ocean immediately.

What the hell does "civ" mean?

How can you prove Ahu Vinapu was built before the Incan empire?...anyway, my sources are mainly in spanish, one of them is "Tupac Yupanqui, descubridor de Oceanía" by José Antonio del Busto...he wrote this book based in the texts of Pedro Sarmiento de Gamboa, Martín de Murúa and Miguel Cabello Valboa, spanish cronistas of the conquest of Perú. Thor Heyerdahl just proved the trip could be completely possible with the inca ships of that date



I see what do you try to do here, but not, I think Great Zimbabwe was built by black africans, and I don't think Rapanui people were unable to build Ahu Vinapu, I say that because the style, the architecture and the techniques used to build it, are basically the same that Incas used...

Can you link them anyway? I'm interested in reading them.

 

[Gucumatz]

I think he was joking Owen, in Civ 5 Polynesia was an entity in one of the DLC's and their UA is to be able to embark immediately at the start of the game (and to cross oceans).

 

[Zipa_DH]

Can you link them anyway? I'm interested in reading them.

Unfortunately no, I couldn't find any digital copy

 

[Gucumatz]

Here is an online copy of Pedro Sarmiento's text though in English - and its a better read anyhow:

http://www.gutenberg.org/files/20218/20218-8.txt

 

[caketastydelish]

Say what you like about Malcom X, he was smart and he was honest, and if you put those two qualities together in a black American in the 1950s, at least some of the stuff he's going to say will make a lot of sense.

He ultimately deserved to die and I'm glad to see him go, yet I quite admire him and am fascinated by him all the same. I see some of myself in him and I am reading his "autobiography" that didn't write himself. Nonetheless, it is fascinating. Even I thought a lot of his viewpoints were reprehensible and disgusting, I still empathize with him as the protagonist and his struggles as a black man during the 1950's and 60's in America. He's considered a controversial figure and for a valid reason. He sharp good points and bad points, neither of which should be ignored.

Can you blame him for hating whitey? I certainly can't.

It wasn't whitey who killed him. What does that tell you? He couldn't get along with anybody. I'd say he deserved to die, in that case.

 

[Traitorfish]

Dude, this thread has been dead almost as long as Malcolm X.