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Why do Atheists exist in some cities and not others?

Discussion in 'Civ6 - General Discussions' started by man_in_finance, Jan 9, 2019.

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  1. man_in_finance

    man_in_finance Chieftain

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    I've recently been playing attempting a religious victory, looking into the calcs that go into the game. The CQUI is quite nice in that it shows the total accumulated religious pressure for each active religion in a city, but it doesn't show the atheist pressure (perhaps there are some mods that do?).

    I realise there is the formula for a given city:

    Citizens of Religion (or Atheists) = ROUND( Population * Specific Pressure / [ Total of All Religious Pressures + Atheist Pressure] )

    Two examples in my game struck me:

    1) London had Population of 15 and 2 religions present: Islam (3234 Pressure) and Taoism (659). The visible Followers were 12 and 3 respectively, and 0 Atheists.
    2) New York had a Population of 15 and 4 religions present: Islam (1088), Taoism (34), Catholicism (686) and Buddhism (334), with visible Followers 6,0,3,2 respectively and 4 Atheists.

    Looking at these examples and using the above formula it is possible to devise minimum and maximal Atheist Pressures that, after rounding, yield the visible number of integer Followers precisely.

    In the case of London those numbers are a minimum of 0 and a maximum of 61 Atheist Pressure.
    In the case of New York those numbers are a minimum of 799 and a maximum of 825 Atheist Pressure.

    So my first question is where does this Atheist pressure come from and why is it so different in cities that harbour the same populations?

    ============
    Now regarding removing Atheist Pressure: I have used an Inquisitor on my own cities and they seem to have no effect on Atheists.

    Secondly, in the same turn I used three (mildly damaged) Apostle spreads on New York and the numbers were revised to: Islam (1680), Taoism (14), Catholicism (289) and Buddhism (141), with visible followers 9,0,1,1 respectively and 4 atheists.

    It seems the Apostles have reduced the foreign religious pressure by 25% each spread but the Atheist Pressure remains intact. The minimum and maximum Atheist Pressure after this is 767 and 840, lets call it 800 before and after.

    So my second question is how to remove Atheist Pressure if Apostles, Missionaries and Inquisitors can't? Upon Conquer?

    The main impact this has, of course, is that it is far easier to convert a fully religious city than an atheist one.

    [Civ VI Rise and Fall CQUI for values]
     
    Last edited: Jan 9, 2019
  2. Timodelphia

    Timodelphia Chieftain

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    Watching ...

    I haven't ever thought of terms of "Atheist Pressure". I just assumed that the population by default was "unconverted" (atheist) until a certain religion exerted enough pressure on them. I assume that the required pressure increased (non-linear) for each "next" atheist (non-believer) converted.

    More simply, there is no atheist pressure.

    No math or example to demonstrate the point, so clearly a theory at this time.
     
  3. man_in_finance

    man_in_finance Chieftain

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    In terms of analysing the numbers, and I have done it over numerous turns with many more cities than my above post it seems quite clear to me that the formula provides a staple and accurate way of counting the religious citizens. But, the missing parameter - what I call atheist pressure -, is not visible in CQUI, and this does seem to impact the number of citizens who simply remain non-believers/ atheists.

    I can see a case for having it as a game mechanic in as much as in the early game where, if the pressure exerted from religious cities generates +1 per turn, if there was no Atheist pressure a city (say of pop 3) could be fully converted in a single turn:

    Citizens of Religion (or Atheists) = ROUND( Population * Specific Pressure / [ Total of All Religious Pressures + Atheist Pressure] )
    Citizens of Religion = ROUND( 3 * 1 / 1 ) = 3.

    But of course if the denominator has some basic atheist pressure (say 50) it takes longer to convert via passive external city pressure:

    Citizens of Religion (after 1 turn) = ROUND( 3 * 1 / (1+50) ) = 0, -> implies 3 Atheists.
    Citizens of Religion (after 100 turns) = ROUND( 3 * 100 / (100+50) ) = 2, -> implies 1 Atheists.

    So to me at least it makes sense, I just don't know where it comes from, what purges it, or why London at population 15 only has a maximum of 61, while New York has managed to accumulate at a minimum 799!
     
  4. man_in_finance

    man_in_finance Chieftain

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    OK so I'm answering my own question...

    Sukritacts UI Mod shows what it terms "Pantheon Pressure" (which I have termed "Atheist Pressure") alongside other "Religious Pressures", so confirms its existence.

    Whenever a city grows (or is founded) it is allocated 50 pressure to the majority religion. In the case of a new city, it is allocated +50 Pantheon/Atheist Pressure (I have not experimented with what happens if you haven't even established a pantheon and v early game). This explains how some cities are able to acquire much more Pantheon/Atheist Pressure than others even with similar populations. Essentially some cities are converted very early and all their stages of growth contribute to their religion and do not increase Pantheon/Atheist Pressure. Whilst cities that have no majority religion increase Pantheon Pressure upon growth. Pantheon/Atheist Pressure has no external factors so it is always a multiple of 50.

    Note that Pantheon/Atheist Pressure never falls after it has been created - when the population decreases due to Settler, Starvation or Conquer all Pressures remain intact. Missionaries and Apostles never reduce Pantheon/Atheist Pressure, whilst they do impact other religious pressures.

    My formula above was almost correct, but to be completely precise I believe Civ VI does a check after application of the formula:

    Citizens of Religion (or Atheists) = ROUND( Population * Specific Pressure / [ Total of All Religious Pressures + Atheist Pressure] )
    After rounding, the number of allocated citizens to various religions sums to a value different to the population, it adjusts the one religion that has been rounded the most up or down by 1 to satisfy equality.

    Here is an example of the above New York with Population 15:

    Religion - Pressure - Citizen Calculation - Citizen Rounded - Citizen After Adjustment:
    Islam - 1088 - 5.742 - 6 - 6
    Taoism - 34 - 0.179 - 0 - 0
    Catholicism - 686 - 3.620 - 4 - 3
    Buddhism - 334 - 1.763 - 2 - 2
    Pantheon - 700 - 3.695 - 4 - 4
    TOTAL - 2842 - 15 - 16 - 15
     

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