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Why do de random-generator always choose indians as opponents?

Discussion in 'Civ3 - General Discussions' started by Rickard1977, May 3, 2016.

  1. Rickard1977

    Rickard1977 Chieftain

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    Mostly all the time when i choose random civilizations as opponents the most common is that i get the Incas, the aztecs, the mayas or the Iroquis. One can wonder if the creators faovured this civs, as the indians were oppressed by the americans.

    Another thing that is annoying is that always when i play germans they start on bad lands. Often there is no river or sea in the nearby, so I have to search with the worker. And the land is mostly food and not many production-squares.

    Have you experienced that?
     
  2. Bartleby

    Bartleby Remembers laughter

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    There used to be a bug involving the Culturally Linked Opponents option, whereby if you chose Culturally Linked Opponents you always got the American tribes.
     
  3. Rickard1977

    Rickard1977 Chieftain

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    Ok, but this happens even if im not playing the americans.

    Strange also that even if i choose culturally linked start-position, sometimes, the vikings start on desert lands. Theres no deserts in Scandinavia.
     
  4. tjs282

    tjs282 Socially isolated since 1975

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    You don't need to be playing an American Civ yourself: the bug is that if you turn on Cultural-linkage AND choose 'Random' for all tribes (including your own, I believe), the American Civs will always be put on the board, even though the RNG should (if it had been working properly) have had an equal probability of choosing any of the 5 available Culture-groups.
    Spoiler :
    Those Culture-groups are (IIRC):
    • Ancient Mediterranean/Classical: Rome, Greece, Egypt (all in Vanilla), Carthage (in PtW), Byzantium (in Conquests)
    • European: England, France, Germany, Russia (all in Vanilla), Scandinavia, Spain, Celts(?) (in PtW), Portugal, Holland (in Conquests)
      • Austria is also a 'hidden' Civ in this Culture-group, which has to be modded in at the expense of another tribe, since the game can't deal with more than 31 Civs plus the barbs
    • American: America (i.e. the USA), Iroquois, Aztecs (all in Vanilla), Inca (in PtW), Maya (in Conquests)
    • Asian: India, China, Japan (all in Vanilla), Korea (in PtW), Mongols (in Conquests)
    • Middle-eastern: Persia, Babylon, Zulu (yes, really!) (all in Vanilla), Hittites, Sumeria, Ottoman, Arabian (2 were added in PtW, 2 in Conquests, can't remember which way round)
    AFAIK, this bug applies to all versions of Civ3, and was never patched (at least, not by Firaxis). It's really noticeable on the smaller map-sizes, where the max. number of Civs is only a small fraction of the total available pool. In those cases, the map will contain only or mostly American Civs (i.e. 3 American of 4 Civs on a Tiny Vanilla map, 4 American of 6 Civs on a Small PtW map, 5 American of 8 Civs on a Standard Conquests map). Turning off Culture-linkage for those map-sizes therefore makes for more varied games: for any given starting-slot, you then have an equal probability of drawing any of the available Civs, even when your own Civ is also Randomly assigned.

    Conversely, on Large maps (12 Civs) in Vanilla and Huge maps (16 Civs) in Conquests -- or on modded 'crowded' maps with more Civs than the baseline for that size -- you can have Culture-linkage without regularly feeling the effects of the bug (apart from always having to compete with the American Civs!), because there aren't always enough Civs in any other single Culture-group to make up the difference. Depending on map-size and Civ3 version, you should get representatives of at least 1 other Culture-group (if the Europeans are the 2nd group drawn on a Large Conquests map, 5 + 9 > 12 Civs), or even all 4 of them (if playing on a Huge Vanilla map, 3 + 4 + 3 + 3 + 3 = 16 Civs).
    Cultural linkage refers to the Culture-groups, not the geography of the starting positions; it means that the same-Culture civs will start near each other.
     

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