Why do people run the Boston Marathon? (analogy)

[cracker]

This year was the 107th running of the Boston Marathon and 20,000 runners and over 150,000 supporters participated in the event.

http://www.bostonmarathon.org/

This thread is an analogy discussion about the Boston Marathon and open competitive events in general but it really could be viewed as being about the GOTM, QSC and Civ3.

Try to think about the Boston Marathon and compare things in that event to things that you observe in the GOTM and QSC. Although Civ3 could probably not be viewed as a physical sport (unless sleep deprivation counts) what are the common or different elements that you see in events like the Boston Marathon versus the GOTM related events?

Why do 20,000 people participate in the Boston Marathon if there are only 5 or 6 winners?

Eight of the top ten finishers in the Boston Marathon were from Kenya. Why do people from other countries even bother to run?

Since almost all the top runners are from Kenya, why doesn't the Boston Athletic Association create a seperate division for Kenyans so that some of the other runners would have a chance??

The fastest finisher in the race was Ernst Van Dyk of South Africa; why is the media so unfair to not focus on him as the winner of the Boston Marathon? He competed by the rules and got the fastest time, isn't he the best athelete?

The fastest runner from the USA was 42 year old Eddy Hellebuyck who finished 10th overall and nearly 6 minutes ahead of the next nearest American even thought Eddy competed in the Masters Division for runners that are 40 to 49 years of age. Why would an older American gut be the only runner to seem competitive with the younger Kenyan racers?

Why would 65 people over the age of 70 choose to participate in the Boston Marathon if the all finished 1 hour to 4 hours behind the winners?

 

[col]

Perhaps there's also an analogy in this years London marathon where a British woman beat all the British men. Why isnt Paula Radcliffe also male champion this year? (It's a few years since I ran it!)

 

[Moonsinger]

Originally posted by cracker
Why do 20,000 people participate in the Boston Marathon if there are only 5 or 6 winners?

I participate in the GOTM mostly to help my communication skills. That would explain why I talk too much sometimes. It doesn't matter if I do well in my QSC or GOTM, but it's very important that everyone like me. I just want to be loved, that's all. Love and respect have nothing to do with how good we are with the game, but they have everything to do with how well we are in dealing with our peers. Did you know that the higher we climb to the top, the tougher we have to deal with our peers? Life can be very lonely at the top sometimes. I'm a little bit different than most people. I feel sad and misery everytime I won a medal in a GOTM or do well in something. That's also pretty much the same in my real life. Everytime I got a job promotion or a bonus cash award, I would always end up in misery and sorrow. Life is really full of ups and downs for me. Whenever I hit the top, I would be very sad because when I turn around, there is nobody there. It was just me and I'm all alone. On the otherhand, whenever I hit the bottom, I'm really happy because I always have something to look forward to. And since there are more people at the bottom than the top, I'm not feeling so alone. And because I'm at the bottom, there is really no where else to go but up.

Eight of the top ten finishers in the Boston Marathon were from Kenya. Why do people from other countries even bother to run?

Running a marathon isn't about winning or losing but about endurance and character building and most important of all, good health. And of course, the GOTM is also about endurance and character building too. No matter what happen at the end of the month, I'm learning something new every day.

Since almost all the top runners are from Kenya, why doesn't the Boston Athletic Association create a seperate division for Kenyans so that some of the other runners would have a chance?

Like I said before, life can be very lonely at the top. I don't mind competing against those Kenyans and knowing that I won't stand a chance; at least, I have something to shoot for. On the other hand, I would be very disappointed if I am one of those Kenyans who win every single time.

The fastest finisher in the race was Ernst Van Dyk of South Africa; why is the media so unfair to not focus on him as the winner of the Boston Marathon? He competed by the rules and got the fastest time, isn't he the best athelete?

The fastest runner from the USA was 42 year old Eddy Hellebuyck who finished 10th overall and nearly 6 minutes ahead of the next nearest American even thought Eddy competed in the Masters Division for runners that are 40 to 49 years of age. Why would an older American gut be the only runner to seem competitive with the younger Kenyan racers?

Why would 65 people over the age of 70 choose to particiapate in the Boston Marathon if the all finished 1 hour to 4 hours behind the winners?

We all know that Cracker would have no problem in stealing candies from the baby. However, when a baby is able (or almost able) to steal candies from Cracker, that has to mean something much more. It's better for me to shoot for the impossible and fail then not trying at all.

 

[Bamspeedy]

I think Cracker is trying to say:

It's not whether you win or lose, but how you play the game. It's not whether you were the best, but whether or not you improved your own individual performance. Continuing to play, regardless of any setbacks/handicaps you may have, whether it be by your own mistakes, or stuff you can't control (like age, when you are talking about running a marathon). None of the runners were talking about how best to exploit the race course (finding shortcuts, etc.), or arguing about the rules or timing system (scoring system for us Civ3er's). Dedication and continuous participation are prevelent in those runners who continue to run the marathon year after year.

And have fun doing it.

The fastest finisher in the race was Ernst Van Dyk of South Africa; why is the media so unfair to not focus on him as the winner of the Boston Marathon? He competed by the rules and got the fastest time, isn't he the best athelete?

Racism in the media? j/k

 

[Moonsinger]

Originally posted by Bamspeedy
None of the runners were talking about how best to exploit the race course (finding shortcuts, etc.), or arguing about the rules or timing system (scoring system for us Civ3er's).

"None" is a very strong word. If I'm not mistaken, there is a Toyna Harding in every race.

 

[hotrod0823]

FWIT my cousin ran it an finished in 3:25 but was honored just to qualify.

I play Civ because I enjoy it. Not to win or be the best but to improve my game to play the variety of games that are out there. There is something for everyone and GOTM allows the slow players run on the same course as the greatest player and you get to see your own games improve by doing, improve my reading, participating and contributing to discussion along the way. It is fun and fosters a sence of community like no other.

I think if I didn't find this site years ago when I was playing civ2 I wouldn't even be playing civ3 anymore. I have a friend that introduced me again to civ about 3 years ago. (after playing civ I in school). I found this site and played GOTM for civ2 and found it to be okay but really got excited when I found the SG's for civ3. There I can get my fix in small doses and learn to play well with other.

On the New and improved GOTM forum I get to play for the long haul knowing full well I will not be a medal winner but hopefully contributing to the event that is the GOTM. The Boston marathon wouldn't be the Boston marathon if only the Kenyans ran it. GOTM wouldn't be as great is it if the also rands didn't participate. Marathon running is a culture on to it self. Isn't Civ too ???

Hotrod

 

[Renata]

My sister beat your cousin, hotrod. (3:24 and 3:15 in consecutive years a couple years back - yes I'm basking in the reflected glory, why do you ask???)

Anyway, Civ's fun! I like to play against my own standards, which are sometimes harder, sometimes more lax, than external standards. (Same way with running, by the way.) And I love to read about other people's games using the same start conditions: I learn some things, I get some amusement from well-written posts and timelines, I get some goals to strive for (and others *not* to).

At the same time, I also have an interest in fairness of scorekeeping in any competition, no matter if I myself am expected to or am even trying to score well. If I were running in the Boston marathon and found out that the race officials were deducting 20 seconds from the finishing time of anyone who high-fived the timekeeper as they crossed the finish line, I'd have been peeved. It's a matter of principle.

Renata

 

[Man of Kent]

I agree with Bamspeedy sentiments running a marathon is about challenging yourself. I've run 4 marathons my first was 4.20 once I had completed the run my next aim was to do it faster and on my third attempt a ran 3.14. Getting older as slowed me some what and now the target is still to be able to comfortably run the distance, I completed the London again last year, 4 hours this time and my next target is to run the London again in 2 years when I will be 50. However with all the training you need to do there is one thing you have got to enjoy it.

So I think running a marathon is similar to GOTM as they are fun to play and every individual can have there own target to aim for which in most cases is not to win but to finish and improve their own performance.

So thanks to Cracker and the team for some excellent course setting over the last few months GOTM

 

[alamo]

It does make a good analogy, though moving yourself from A to B is a much simpler concept than SirPleb's choose-your-victory finish.

Both are international spectacles of human competition in a non-essential activity that requires time, money and effort both physically and emotionally. The difficulty is such that merely finishing conveys some accomplishment.

To contrast:

Many people pledge to prepare for the marathon as part of a general comittment to improve their health and stick to a personal development goal. Simply starting the race may be a personal sucess for them. This is probably the motivation for the older crowd and those without reasonable hope of ranking high. AFAIK, nobody has engaged in GOTM as a personal development goal.

Also, the runners are recognized as 3 different groups - Men, Women, and Wheelchair runners. This reflects different physical abilities, of course. So far we have no analogy in GOTM.

I'm not sure if there was a hidden message in the post or not. I have advocated for some way to open up the competition to more players.

 

[Borealis]

Hotrod and Moonsinger have already stated many of my reasons, but I will simply say that seeing different approaches and stories about the GOTM is why I started, and continue, to participate in it. The 'competition' aspect provides spice to the game, and it's fun to see how you compare. I'll probably never win a GOTM medal, but it's still fun watching the thoroughbred racers and the dairy farmers stampede their herds at each other. I also enjoy seeing people try variants, or go for deliberately 'silly' strategies like the Green Ambulance, as an amusing counterpoint to the narrow focus on points.

I can think of one obvious part of the Marathon analogy that hasn't been mentioned yet, and that's the development of the new spoiler thread system. The multiple spoiler threads provide 'checkpoints' for the discussion, like landmarks do for the Boston Marathon, to let participants know how far they have gone in their own race against others or against themselves.

 

[AgedOne]

I do like your analogy, Cracker, and it has made me think about why I am taking part on such a regular basis. I have tried to complete and submit each time since I began (around GOTM13, I think) and felt quite sad about not being able to complete GOTM17 when real life left me too short of time. That reaction showed me, if the hours I've dedicated to it did not, that there was something about this that kept bringing me back month after month to take part in a contest I had absolutely no chance of winning and virtually no chance of picking up any prize for.

It is not simply in order to better your own performance that the competitors in either event keep returning, as they could simply race alone, play alone, and formulate their own ways of rating their performance from one attempt to another. It must have something to do with taking part in a large event as part of a community, as well. We are aware of all the other participants struggling with the same conditions as we are, and can see how everyone coped with each aspect.

In a strange way, I've found that as the GOTM becomes more popular, and the accounts of the players' struggles become more numerous and detailed, that this has detracted from my enjoyment - simply because it is now more difficult and arduous for me to take in everybody's experiences due to the sheer volume. Individuals have become more difficult to relate to in the crowds. Not completely, though. Once you know some of the best, or most interesting or insightful writers, you can seek them out in the crowds.

Man of Kent mentions the course-setting. This is another excellent feature of the analogy. We can all discuss the course we have just run, and debate the different parts of it and the differing approaches and strategies we all have. The course-setter has a great responsibility. Not only the basics and the absence of any fundamental errors, but the degree of challenge for the participants and the potential for learning and improving performances that is inherent. This should never seem artificial, either, as the enjoyment of many would be spoiled it it ever appeared that they were running the course for the benefit of the organisers.

But what's behind the question? Are you trying to see what folks say about why they compete, in order to see where we should go from here?

Hopefully, we're not going for format changes. I agree with Moonsinger about not wanting sub-division. The main aim is not to be the winner of a very small category. I'm happy to be running along in the middle somewhere and enjoy all of the spoilers that I can manage to read.

I want to improve. Probably the only thing that would stop me taking part (barring a fundamental change in the format) would be a continuing decline in my standard.
Hopefully not about to happen.

 

[drewshark]

I agree and second many of the comments made but there is one thing that I have not seen mentioned. Running is one of the few physical activities or sports (if you consider it a sport ) where simply effort and motivation can lead to vast improvements quickly. I myself, have never run more than a 10-K, but I think everyone will agree that if they run 5 miles a day and enter a 10-K twice a month; there is little doubt that their time will drop signigicantly with each additional race, especially the first few. I find this to be a fantastic analogy for GOTM. Many come into CFC and GOTM never really having competed along these lines thought they have run (so to speak). Just participating in GOTM for a few months has led to vast, quick improvements, even if you are just staying in the back and finishing. The real test later on in any physical activity in which you are improving (and in GOTM) is after you plateau a bit and need new motivations and efforts to reach new heights.

 

[Karasu]

Nice analogy...
I am reaching this thread too late -you wise people have already dissected the topic too well . I feel there is one point left out though: how would you "milk" a Marathon?

 

[Capt Buttkick]

@drewshark: that's what I did and in gotm18 it lead to my first victory on monarchy ever

Karasu: Have you not noticed how some ppl keep on running after they've reached the goal line? Simply stopping after running 42 K meters is difficult because your feet have reached a nice rythm and urges you on

There is one more aspect I'd like to mention: there's always a chance that somewhere in the masses someone has got a greater potential than the individual winning the race, but that someone is not willing to make the sacrifice to get to the top. I often enjoy competitions the most when I particiapte without trying to win.
Then again, I'm a sore looser so that doens't happen too often lol

 

[Karasu]

Originally posted by Capt Buttkick

Karasu: Have you not noticed how some ppl keep on running after they've reached the goal line? Simply stopping after running 42 K meters is difficult because your feet have reached a nice rythm and urges you on

You're right!
How could I miss that? It's so plain simple!!!

I'll have to try it in my next Marathon (which incidentally would also be my first): once I cross the finish line, I'll turn around 180° and run it all the way back to the start...

 

[Moonsinger]

Originally posted by Karasu
I'll have to try it in my next Marathon (which incidentally would also be my first): once I cross the finish line, I'll turn around 180° and run it all the way back to the start...

What some runners from the far away realm fail to realize is that it does require a lot of extra trainings. In order to keep on running, the body must be able to produce extra energy to maintain appropriate heartbeat and so on. Therefore, there are a lot more to milking than to just simply run or to just simply hit the enter key until to 2050AD.

 

[alamo]

Originally posted by Karasu
I feel there is one point left out though: how would you "milk" a Marathon?

The victory condition is single and simple, so there's only 1 way to improve the score - finish faster!

AFAIK, nobody has engaged in GOTM as a personal development goal.

I should have said nobody engages in GOTM as personal development goal to improve their health.

 

[Moonsinger]

Originally posted by alamo
I should have said nobody engages in GOTM as personal development goal to improve their health.

Not really! I'm treating the GOTM as a personal development goal to improve my health here. Let me explain:

Civ addiction or any kind of addiction can be very bad for my health. Those endless nights can really hurt my health in the long run. Therefore, my personal development goal is that I must learn how to balance my schedule. There will be a time for playing civ and time to sleep and so on. Plus, I must also learn how to relax when things don't work out as planed.

 

[drewshark]

My personal "Jason Score" for a Marathon benchmarks at around 5 hours so Milking might finish me in time for the New York Marathon!

 

[Karasu]

Moonsinger,
your posts are always pleasant reading

You are perfectly right, of course, there is no such thing as "just keep on running" in any discipline.
I do appreciate what it means to train, and I am very respectful of all achievements that show skill and training -yours included, that goes without saying.

Myself, I am not really for running. I like walking, and especially enjoy hiking on steep, lonely mountain tracks. But there is no competition there, so it would hardly compare with the GOTM from that point of view -although there may still be some interesting similarities...