Why do people take it personally?

Discussion in 'Civ5 - General Discussions' started by SuperSmash5, Oct 19, 2010.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. SuperSmash5

    SuperSmash5 Warlord

    Joined:
    Mar 5, 2009
    Messages:
    118
    It seems to me that many people here think that Civ5 being under par is a personal attack against their rights as gamers.

    Now I really hesitate to make a claim like that, but I've been noticing some very disturbing trends that I just can't ignore any longer.

    I've seen people here:
    -Grossly exaggerating the shortcomings of the game
    -Insulting the game developers
    -Accusing the publishers of ripping them off
    -Attempting to send a message that the game is unacceptable
    -Making snide comments or insults against people simply for enjoying or trying to enjoy the game
    -Celebrating when others don't like the game
    -Nit picking on minor shortcomings to the extreme

    And the list goes on. I think it's clear from the general attitude of the board that people aren't just disappointed but are angry.

    I'm not going to try to defend Civ5 as a good game or anything, but I just don't understand why people would take it so personally. I used to be a Nintendo fan and this kind of stuff happened all the time but even NSider didn't flip out this much when the new console was being named Wii or when their games were one disappointment after another. I think they knew it was because Nintendo would do whatever it felt like no matter what the fans wanted.

    So why is it so different here? What makes people think they deserve a good game from Civ5 or even a game at all? The gamer doesn't have any rights. You either buy/play the game or you don't. Why does there have to be so much personal emotion behind it?






    ----------------------

    Edit:



    I'm back. :)

    I think the critical difference in what I'm saying and what some of you are understanding is that there's a difference between expecting something and feeling like you're entitled to it. That's what I meant by "gamer's rights". I was referring to that sense entitlement. Because gamers are NOT entitled. I would say, based on what I've observed, that people do feel entitled. You can say otherwise, but I don't think that mere let down expectations would manifest as feelings of anger and betrayal. People have gone beyond simply stating their opinion in the ways I've described. I remember seeing a poll which asked people how much money they thought the game was worth. IIRC, over 20 of the people said less than $1. That's not an honest opinion. It's just anger. Sure, maybe the supporters share the same dogma, but that's not exactly the same phenomenon and I didn't really choose to ask about it.

    And it's not like I've never been disappointed with a game either. I didn't like Twilight Princess after being a Zelda fan, and I became disenchanted with Nintendo afterward, but I didn't go nuts. I posted my opinion on every thread on NSider, and I didn't defend the game either. Instead I went back to replaying Majora's Mask because I enjoyed it and I eventually, over time, was able to appreciate Twilight Princess a little bit too. It was nice, and I think a lot of the NSiders felt similarly even though that forum was already overflowing with trolls from Sony and MS forums. I thought maybe since people were talking about Civ being strong for 20 years meant there were more longtime fans, but you guys said that wasn't the case.

    In any case, I think since this chaos has been going on so strongly for a while now, it would be best if both "sides" would save themselves the anxiety and just chill. I only say this because it doesn't seem toning down at all. The whole situation reeks of immaturity. So much that after having fun speculating about the game, I recluded after the game was released. Honestly, I probably should've spared myself this nonsense, but I was curious (still am) and I didn't think I'd get accused of "licking the boots of company that published unfinished crappy game", lol. If any of you want to be paranoid and assume I hold the same whining or aggressive sentiments you do, then project all you want, but you'll be proving my point.

    What might be better is if people would apply some of that disappointment into coming up with a specific design to better the game and then modding it in. I know if I had the game, I'd probably be coming up with ideas and tinkering with it to see if I could improve it. There's actually some of that going on in the strategy board. This thread was particularly full of interesting debates even though I didn't get a chance to read most of it: http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=388179 . Please indulge yourselves. I'll probably still be reading most of your suggestions even if I'm not posting back.
     
  2. C~G

    C~G Untouchable

    Joined:
    May 24, 2006
    Messages:
    4,146
    BS.

    People are utterly disappointed and frustrated that game they expected isn't there and franchise they love might be at the end.

    Instead you should ask yourself this:
    Why do you take it personally that someone critizices crappy game that you just happen to like?

    "The gamer doesn't have any rights. "

    Actually gamer who didn't buy or did buy a game have right to complain. Apparently for you there is just the right to be licking the boots of company that published unfinished crappy game.

    Also there's the chance that voicing your disapproval SMART gaming company might learn it lesson. But since it has spokeperson like you who happily buys garbage, it probably fails and eventually will make them just publish same kind of product again.
     
  3. SuperJay

    SuperJay Bending Space and Time

    Joined:
    Sep 24, 2010
    Messages:
    3,273
    Location:
    Shacklyn
    Probably because a lot of people have a connection to the Civ franchise that goes back 20 years, who have always felt that Civilization is a "special" game unlike any other, and whose loyalty to its creators ran very deep.

    So, they probably feel betrayed over Civ5. Not just ripped off, but actually betrayed. When you earn that level of trust with your fans - and then you pull the rug out from under them - they're going to feel deceived, and that's going to generate anger.

    I'm not saying it's justified or not justified, but this seems to me to be the (fairly obvious) answer to your question. Hope it helps.
     
  4. hardcore_gamer

    hardcore_gamer King

    Joined:
    Oct 25, 2009
    Messages:
    672
    This.

    The OP is asking we people are taking it personally. I am now ask him the same thing.
     
  5. SuperSmash5

    SuperSmash5 Warlord

    Joined:
    Mar 5, 2009
    Messages:
    118
    Definitely angry. Are you done projecting or should I tell you now that I don't even have the game?
     
  6. SuperJay

    SuperJay Bending Space and Time

    Joined:
    Sep 24, 2010
    Messages:
    3,273
    Location:
    Shacklyn
    So you just made this thread to troll people who are disappointed in Civ5?

    I'm almost disappointed in myself for giving you a civil answer; I should have known. :rolleyes:
     
  7. DiabolicX

    DiabolicX Chieftain

    Joined:
    Aug 5, 2007
    Messages:
    85
    Location:
    San Jose, CA
    I kinda do take it personally as a matter of fact.

    Have you ever been screwed by someone or a situation and felt kinda dirty or robbed after? You know that feeling that just flat out stinks. If you have not I will tell you that it sucks, alot. Thats how I feel, like they personally lied to me. The reviewers, the developers, the marketers, the company, even Sid himself.

    I play alot of games and do alot of activities outside of gaming. I have not felt like this for many years, the feeling of that someone actually robbed me. The money is not whats important to me, its just $50, but its the principle. Weird huh. Thats just how I feel.

    Its not like it was a new game and my expectations were low, this is Civ and we are discussing this on CIV fanatics not a steam, ea, cod2, forum.
     
  8. SuperSmash5

    SuperSmash5 Warlord

    Joined:
    Mar 5, 2009
    Messages:
    118
    Not really. I just don't like when people make assumptions about me. I really tried to approach this from a removed point of view, but people can get so riled up.

    I did like your answer. I can't say I've experienced the phenomenon though. Does it exist more in PC gamers who tend to be older?
     
  9. sketch162000

    sketch162000 Warlord

    Joined:
    Oct 12, 2010
    Messages:
    221
    Well, I've also noticed some very disturbing trends that I just can't ignore any longer.

    I've seen people here:
    -Grossly exaggerating the quality of the game
    -Insulting the people who disagree
    -Accusing the the people who don't like Civ V as wearing rose-colored glasses
    -Attempting to send a message that the game is the greatest Civ EVAR!!!111
    -Making snide comments or insults against people simply for disliking the game
    -Complaining when others don't like the game
    -Nit picking on minor shortcomings in Civ IV to the extreme.

    And the list goes on. I think it's clear from the general attitude of the board that many people are enjoying the game and actually try to force their opinion on everyone who disagrees.

    I'm not going to try to accuse Civ5 as a bad game or anything, but I just don't understand why people would take it so personally.

    What makes people think they have to defend a game? You either buy/play the game or you don't. Why does there have to be so much personal emotion behind it?

    Sorry for the snark, but this observation really goes both ways...
     
  10. Bad Brett

    Bad Brett King

    Joined:
    Sep 4, 2002
    Messages:
    828
    Imagine buying a cheeseburger at McDonalds only to discover that the cheese was missing and that the meat was rotten. Well, you have no right to be angry my friend, because you actually chose to buy it. How foolish of you to expect to get an edible hamburger just because you've eaten there for 20 years. So don't take it personally.
     
  11. Centurio

    Centurio Warlord

    Joined:
    May 31, 2010
    Messages:
    179
    Location:
    The Roman Heartlands
    There was a poll about age and level of satisfaction attained from Civilization V. Many of the gamers (if I remember correctly) were between the ages of 15 and 30.
     
  12. SuperJay

    SuperJay Bending Space and Time

    Joined:
    Sep 24, 2010
    Messages:
    3,273
    Location:
    Shacklyn
    I can understand that; I don't either. Maybe if you extend that courtesy to others, they will extend it back to you. It's worth a try, at least. :)

    I don't know, I haven't made a long-term study of such things. If anything I'd say it's probably more commonplace in younger gamers, but it probably has very little to do with age. I don't think it's restricted to video games, either. You build up a brand that people trust and feel very vested in over 20 years, you're going to get some backlash when you make a significant change to that product - especially if you're seen as being less than honest with those people whose trust you earned in those previous decades. (And given the Dennis Shirk interview posted in this forum, it seems that Civ fans have a decent reason to feel deceived.)

    PS: Sketch's reply makes a good point, by the way - all those behaviors do go both ways. And frankly, I find it harder to understand when it's people taking other peoples' opinions so personally.
     
  13. Wardancing

    Wardancing Warlord

    Joined:
    Mar 31, 2010
    Messages:
    162
    You mean people getting excited/aggitated/angry about disappointing games, or false reviews, or insert whatever here?

    Have you seen that gamefly commercial? Theres actually more than one. I dont see any old pc gamers, i see mainly young, and what appear to be console players.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=usSxOhrYorY

    Spoiler :
    This also, is a big reason for poor sales, people get burned, they eventually learn. Companies should stop blaming piracy for Everything, and figure out what else theyre doing wrong. Its obvious that Gamefly has done some research and seen that theres a lot (enough to market multiple commercials and have a service for) gamers who find themselves disappointed over and over with subpar products.
     
  14. AkulaReloaded

    AkulaReloaded Chieftain

    Joined:
    Oct 19, 2010
    Messages:
    21
    Location:
    CT
    I don't want to speak for everyone here - but I know how I feel, and I think it may be similar (at least in part) to how others feel as well.

    We (the Civ series player base) expected alot more out of Civ V. The series, as a whole, was always progressive - mostly.
    Civilization captured our minds, it kept us glued to our monitors for hours, and days at a time... a revolution in Strategy gaming.

    Civ 2 expanded on it - better graphics and video were brought to the table. More units, some gameplay changes as well.

    Civ III, while being an outcast, introduced new concepts, units and methods and further improved the series.

    Civ IV was simply astonishing. Firaxis realized they dropped the ball a bit with Civ III, and set out to make right by their loyal player base. Civ IV was a new breath of life into the game - pretty much the modern-day standard of Civ. More new game concepts, units, and such
    They then went not one, but TWO steps further and gave us a pair of expansion packs that put Civ IV solidly into the hearts of their players. Warlords and Beyond the Sword, pretty much made it the definitive version of Civilization, and set the benchmark incredibly high. Firaxis' players loved them, and the works they had created.

    There was a console version - CivRev, as well. This was decidely not aimed at the PC community - it was meant to introduce the game, and its concepts to the console crowd.

    Civ 5 came along... and we, as a playerbase and community, we let down. We were let down because we were expecting something at least on-par with Civ Iv, and instead we got a "bridge the console/PC gap" mess. With this incarnation, they aimed to further involve the console crowd; who, having played and enjoyed CivRev, might give this particular PC version a try.

    At the risk of sounding elitist, I say the following:
    I/we feel slighted because as the player-base (the PC player base), we were THE driving force and target demographic for the entire Civilization series up until this point - with the exception of CivRev. Firaxis declared "Civilization 5 - on PC!" and we all rejoiced. Again...we were expecting something on-par with Civ IV, and they did not deliver.
    It's not that "we're entitled", or "they owe us"... but, the PC community has been the sole driving force behind Civilization, and PC game companies are turning their backs on their long-term supporters with un-nerving frequency.

    I'm firmly of the opinion that Strategy gaming on the scale of Civilization, should solely be experienced on the PC. Any attempt to bring it to a console will create something that does not capture the spirit and fundamentals of the genre. There have been forays into the console world - but they have not been, in my opinion, successful. If they were successful, the genre would have been re-defined, and we'd all be playing Civ on a console... as it would have been found to be the next, best vehicle for Strategy games. There is simply no way to implement the complexities of the game (Civ, Hearts of Iron, EU, etc) on a console... both due to hardware, and software restrictions.

    I/we are the PC Community. We aren't elitist (generally speaking), but we ARE the driving force behind the rampant success of the Civilization series. That is why I/we feel like we were let down.


    edit - I wanted to add an aside, that bears relevance.

    When Halo was released for PC, it contained weapons and vehicles not present in the Xbox version. The Xbox community was upset - and rightfully so. The felt chided by Microsoft for giving these things to the PC version, while they, the Xbox Community, were the sole driving force behind the success and popularity of the game. Same thing here, for the most part.
     
  15. DaveGold

    DaveGold Emperor

    Joined:
    Dec 1, 2009
    Messages:
    1,058
    You can see the adverse reactions because people have invested a lot of time and money into something they like.

    It's a bit like sports teams. They're only a bunch of guys doing something with balls but because a fan has invested part of their life watching this team they want it to succeed. They don't want to watch another team or another sport, they just want their team to succeed and they get can get really angry when the team fails to even put in the effort.
     
  16. DiabolicX

    DiabolicX Chieftain

    Joined:
    Aug 5, 2007
    Messages:
    85
    Location:
    San Jose, CA
    Nice! :goodjob:
     
  17. HeavyTwenty

    HeavyTwenty Chieftain

    Joined:
    Sep 25, 2010
    Messages:
    69
    I'm more disappointed with professional game reviewers than Firaxis. With the amount of bugs that Civ5 shipped with, it should at best gotten 85%. Throw in subpar AI, missing features like demolishing/selling buildings, the WORST game engine optimization (there's no way this game should run slower than Napoleon Total War or Crysis), and a barely functional multiplayer; this game should at best received a 75-80%, not the 90% it currently holds on metacritics.
     
  18. Supr49er

    Supr49er 2011 Thunderfall Cup

    Joined:
    Jan 25, 2006
    Messages:
    3,603
    Location:
    Bear Flag Republic
    Yeah, personally, I'm more upset about my 49ers right now ;)
     
  19. hardcore_gamer

    hardcore_gamer King

    Joined:
    Oct 25, 2009
    Messages:
    672
    You would not be able to eat hamburgers at MacDonald's for 20 years since you would be dead long before that :D
     
  20. Supr49er

    Supr49er 2011 Thunderfall Cup

    Joined:
    Jan 25, 2006
    Messages:
    3,603
    Location:
    Bear Flag Republic
    Dude, don't even kid around about pirating games here.
     
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.

Share This Page