It seems to me that many people here think that Civ5 being under par is a personal attack against their rights as gamers. Now I really hesitate to make a claim like that, but I've been noticing some very disturbing trends that I just can't ignore any longer. I've seen people here: -Grossly exaggerating the shortcomings of the game -Insulting the game developers -Accusing the publishers of ripping them off -Attempting to send a message that the game is unacceptable -Making snide comments or insults against people simply for enjoying or trying to enjoy the game -Celebrating when others don't like the game -Nit picking on minor shortcomings to the extreme And the list goes on. I think it's clear from the general attitude of the board that people aren't just disappointed but are angry. I'm not going to try to defend Civ5 as a good game or anything, but I just don't understand why people would take it so personally. I used to be a Nintendo fan and this kind of stuff happened all the time but even NSider didn't flip out this much when the new console was being named Wii or when their games were one disappointment after another. I think they knew it was because Nintendo would do whatever it felt like no matter what the fans wanted. So why is it so different here? What makes people think they deserve a good game from Civ5 or even a game at all? The gamer doesn't have any rights. You either buy/play the game or you don't. Why does there have to be so much personal emotion behind it? ---------------------- Edit: I'm back. I think the critical difference in what I'm saying and what some of you are understanding is that there's a difference between expecting something and feeling like you're entitled to it. That's what I meant by "gamer's rights". I was referring to that sense entitlement. Because gamers are NOT entitled. I would say, based on what I've observed, that people do feel entitled. You can say otherwise, but I don't think that mere let down expectations would manifest as feelings of anger and betrayal. People have gone beyond simply stating their opinion in the ways I've described. I remember seeing a poll which asked people how much money they thought the game was worth. IIRC, over 20 of the people said less than $1. That's not an honest opinion. It's just anger. Sure, maybe the supporters share the same dogma, but that's not exactly the same phenomenon and I didn't really choose to ask about it. And it's not like I've never been disappointed with a game either. I didn't like Twilight Princess after being a Zelda fan, and I became disenchanted with Nintendo afterward, but I didn't go nuts. I posted my opinion on every thread on NSider, and I didn't defend the game either. Instead I went back to replaying Majora's Mask because I enjoyed it and I eventually, over time, was able to appreciate Twilight Princess a little bit too. It was nice, and I think a lot of the NSiders felt similarly even though that forum was already overflowing with trolls from Sony and MS forums. I thought maybe since people were talking about Civ being strong for 20 years meant there were more longtime fans, but you guys said that wasn't the case. In any case, I think since this chaos has been going on so strongly for a while now, it would be best if both "sides" would save themselves the anxiety and just chill. I only say this because it doesn't seem toning down at all. The whole situation reeks of immaturity. So much that after having fun speculating about the game, I recluded after the game was released. Honestly, I probably should've spared myself this nonsense, but I was curious (still am) and I didn't think I'd get accused of "licking the boots of company that published unfinished crappy game", lol. If any of you want to be paranoid and assume I hold the same whining or aggressive sentiments you do, then project all you want, but you'll be proving my point. What might be better is if people would apply some of that disappointment into coming up with a specific design to better the game and then modding it in. I know if I had the game, I'd probably be coming up with ideas and tinkering with it to see if I could improve it. There's actually some of that going on in the strategy board. This thread was particularly full of interesting debates even though I didn't get a chance to read most of it: http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=388179 . Please indulge yourselves. I'll probably still be reading most of your suggestions even if I'm not posting back.