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Why does Babylon have a coastal start bias?

Discussion in 'Civ5 - General Discussions' started by Keirador, Aug 17, 2013.

  1. Keirador

    Keirador Deity

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    . . . seriously, why? Babylon ain't on the coast, Babylonia was not really a seafaring power. Just. . . what?
     
  2. Yzman

    Yzman Deity

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    The simple answer is...it doesn't?
     
  3. Pythakoreas

    Pythakoreas Chef Tain

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    Why does Korea have a coastal start bias?
     
  4. OmniPotent42

    OmniPotent42 King

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    Indeed. Digging through the xml shows that Babylon has no start bias at all. That being said, there is nothing preventing babylon from starting on the coast if the game thinks a good starting position is on the coast, same goes for river starts.

    OP probably rolled a bunch of coastal starts as babylon and doesn't understand how probability works.
     
  5. Keirador

    Keirador Deity

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    I was going off the wikia: http://civilization.wikia.com/wiki/Babylonian_(Civ5)

    Babylon's one of my favorite Civs, and I've played it at least a dozen times, and rerolled for a new start like an average of 3 times each, it's never been anything but Coastal. . . UNLESS I disable start biases. Then I very rarely get coasts. If I'm a huge outlier, it seems like a weird coincidence that the usually-fairly-accurate wikia also has Babylon as a coast bias.
     
  6. Yzman

    Yzman Deity

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    The XML doesn't lie. They don't have a coastal start bias. You are probably just noticing it because you thought it was true, but really, good start locations are usually on the coast, regardless of civ.
     
  7. MattZed

    MattZed Warlord

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    Because they have a naval UU, I believe.
     
  8. Theruss

    Theruss Warlord

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    Yep, the mighty Turtle Ship! Good for conquering cities on the coast of your continent. (Ship cannot enter ocean, despite it replacing the Caravel.)
     
  9. Strategist83

    Strategist83 King

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    Babylonians like to get naked and party on the beach. That's why.
     
  10. joncnunn

    joncnunn Senior Java Wizard Moderator

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    Yup; while there are several civs that have Coastal start bias (so many that they created a super-duper coastal start bias for Venice) Babylon is NOT one of them.

    And there's no civ that has a river bias. (When Vanilla was first released, America used to have a river start bias; but a very early patch removed it. I did find that the code behind the river bias is still there. Note that it is mutually exclusive with ocean bias.)
     
  11. FeiLing

    FeiLing Deity

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    You know how a Wiki usually works, right? Random people make articles without getting paid anything - this simply looks like a copy and paste error to me. And in smaller Wikis there aren't many people to correct each other or notice mistakes fast enough.

    Looked at a few more civs... several have Coast Start Bias according to that Wikia who really do not have it. Also some say coast while others have the icon for coast. Inconsistency and plenty of mistakes ;)

    PS: Not sure if America ever had the River start bias and got it stripped later or if it is and always was in the XML as an example (it is still written in there, but marked as to be ignored by the game).
     
  12. ahawk

    ahawk King

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    Almost sure that they had a river start bias in vanilla, and had it set to 'ignore' by one of the patches in G&K. I remember in a thread on start bias and how relatively few civs actually have one (at least at that time, haven't checked BNW XML) that someone brought up this same issue, to which several folks replied that for whatever reason, the change occurred in G&K.
     
  13. Gyra Solune

    Gyra Solune King

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    Tell that to the city lists which have weird inconsistencies with the actual in-game cities. Like how it's Braunschweig in the XML, but...Braunschweig/Brunswik when you actually found it. Yes with the slash and all.
     
  14. 4N4C0ND4

    4N4C0ND4 King

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    On a side note, if this was true, why was it removed?
    Just curious.

    Regards, 4N4
     
  15. FeiLing

    FeiLing Deity

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    Because rivers were imba back when they gave every tile with next to them +1g ;)

    And the is no real reason why the Americans should have it (compared to like for e.g. India or Egypt (can't think of any more which are related/associated with a river/rivers very much)).
     
  16. Bibor

    Bibor Doomsday Machine

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    America had river bias because allegedly minutemen(?) had roadlike movement speed along rivers. this was before release, so pehaps someone from fist beta can confirm.
     
  17. joncnunn

    joncnunn Senior Java Wizard Moderator

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    Any game play reason would be that river starts are powerful.

    But there was also a realism attack; namely that every single big city founded by every country prior to 1700 AD has been founded along a river, ocean, or lake.
     
  18. budweiser

    budweiser King of the Beers

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    You may end up on the coast if you have no bias because all the opponents who have a bias took the other spots.
     
  19. Moriarte

    Moriarte Immortal

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    This file says that only two civs that have true ocean bias: England and Ottomans.

    C:\Program Files (x86)\Steam\SteamApps\common\Sid Meier's Civilization V\Assets\Gameplay\XML\Civilizations\CIV5Civilizations.xml

    I am no programmer, was just browsing XML folder randomly after reading this thread. I am curious if that's true, or maybe some more info is hiding somewhere else? I thought Carthage, Spain and Venice also get coastal bias, but it seems they have no terrain priority.
     
  20. Kwami

    Kwami Emperor

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    You need to look at the XML in the expansion and DLC folders to see start biases for expansion and DLC civs.

    For instance, in C:\Program Files (x86)\Steam\steamapps\common\Sid Meier's Civilization V\Assets\DLC\Expansion\Gameplay\XML\Civilizations\CIV5Civilizations_Expansion.xml, you can see that Carthage and Spain do indeed have an ocean start bias. Venice would be in Expansion2.

    (Actually, Indonesia, Korea, Byzantium, Portugal, and Venice are all listed with ocean biases in the BNW XML!)

    (Spain is listed in DLC_02, so she gets one even without G&K or BNW installed. Polynesia gets an ocean bias from DLC_03. Denmark also gets one, according to the DLC_04 XML. Korea actually doesn't get an ocean bias in DLC_05, but I think the BNW XML overwrites that if you're playing with BNW enabled.)
     

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