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Why does everyone hate CIV5?

Discussion in 'Civ5 - General Discussions' started by ProudAmerican, Nov 26, 2010.

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  1. markh

    markh Deity

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    I can just recommend reading the RB3 - Daring Deity Ottoman game in the Civ 5 Succession Games forum. Sulla summarized very well on page 16 post 313 why the game is broken for many players. They have beaten the crap out of the deity AI. Where should the fun come from if it is this easy to beat the game ?
     
  2. charon2112

    charon2112 King

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    Not true. I didn't mean to imply that their arguments were ripped apart, but that they were ganged up on and ripped apart on a personal level...with ridicule and insults.

    Like I said before, the constructive criticism is great, and that's what the developer seem to listen to. Unfortunately only a very few of the complaint threads contained anything constructive.
     
  3. Casluerj

    Casluerj Chieftain

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    People tend to compare Civ 4 with Civ 5, its natural to comparte with the last game.

    However, they are forgetting that only after BTS CIV4 was really a finished and fun game.

    CIV 5 has only few days, I agree that a company should not released an unfinished product, but I still believe that CIV 5 can become a great and enjoyable game. Lets give it time.
     
  4. bhavv

    bhavv Glorious World Dictator

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    I dont hate Civ 5, but its nowwhere near how good Civ II, IV, and SMAC are. I want a proper sequel to the series that is as good as those three games.
     
  5. Peregrine

    Peregrine The Swift

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    Charon,

    Your first response was simply contradiction. And it was wrong. Try embracing reality. Yes, of course I'm referring to this forum, but hey, sarcasm noted, thanks for being civil. :rolleyes: Now, I have some idea of what I'm dealing with. I can just restate; No, V's defenders are the attack dogs. The critical posts get ripped on, ridiculed, and nonsensical accusations made. The critical threads are attacked in this way invariably. If you don't think so, you're welcome to your opinion. It's clearly wrong. If you can simply contradict, so can I. How does it feel?

    Yes, it DID fail to deliver for me. VALID. If you don't like it, tough. Deal. I've had to restate this numerous times, apparently because the attack doggies simply ignore that which does not please them; THIS FORUM IS EXACTLY THE PLACE TO AIR CRITICISM. If not here, then where, Charon? There is no rational connection between "liking the game" and attacking critics who do not. Please try to establish that connection. I'd sure like to see that attempt. Lemme see; "I sure do like V, therefore, I MUST attack those who don't." Face it, there is NO RATIONAL PURPOSE for defense of the game. Be it good or bad, defending it is irrational. Critics are attempting to accomplish something. Attack doggies are not. Or, if they are, my guess is that they don't particularly want anyone to know what motivates them. ;)

    Nowhere did I state that my opinion is superior to yours. Interesting how you created that little strawman out of thin air. Reveals who I'm dealing with, however. Once again, civil discussion of the game is fine, but that is NOT what the attack dogs do. It'd be interesting to tally up the number of times I've seen the words "haters" and "whine" in these posts. Want to try that yourself? I bet you won't. ;) If you don't want the game changed, then please, go post in the "I like V" threads and stay out of the critical threads. There; problem solved. Glad I could assist you there Charon. :p

    Why should the designers change the game because I don't like it. Simple; 50 dollars. If they want it, they will. If not, they won't. Doesn't mean I shouldn't make the attempt to communicate. Also, a brief look around on these boards indicates that I'm certainly not alone. Nice try there, though, trying to make it appear that this is my selfish demand rather than the reasonable expectation of an informed and cautious consumer. Keep trying though, you're funny. :p

    The attack doggies is MY pejorative. I coined it. Its definition is mine. Trying to simply contradict me and redefine it won't work. Try something else. Saying the attack dogs aren't who I defined them as, is, once again, simple-minded contradiction. Your opinion. Mine is different. Next? :rolleyes:

    I agree that constructive criticism is preferred over simple slamming. There is much of the latter on both sides, but too little of the former in the anti-critics' postings. I have suggestions for improvements in several posts. Review if you like. Characterizing me as such doesn't work. :rolleyes: Next?

    The "unbelievable hostility" I've seen has been directed at critics, over and over and over again. You can state this, but it's simply not true. You do seem to have a knack for just contradiction. Is that all you can do? :rolleyes: It's easy enough to counter--I will simply do the same thing. Good luck with that tactic. :rolleyes:

    I've seen MANY posters say that they respect the opinions of others prior to listing their criticisms, mostly as a preface, presumably to forestall the attack doggies right off the bat. Sadly, it almost never seems to work, though. :rolleyes:

    No, my claim about astroturfing is not "ridiculous." Look it up--it's not my job to educate you about shady marketing techniques. They exist. Once again, are you seriously claiming that "it can't happen here?!" Ignore the obvious facts if it suits you. I don't.

    I haven't "proven" anything. It isn't nonsense. And of course I don't enjoy the game. Can you make any sense at all? I'm guessing that that's too much to ask though. :lol: :rolleyes:

    Nearly all your replies, Charon, were simple contradiction. No support of any kind, just bald-faced claims which, in total, are simply not true. Anyone who has perused these boards for the past few weeks can weigh up your claims and mine, and figure out who's got their act together and who doesn't. Good luck. :rolleyes:
     
  6. PawelS

    PawelS Ancient Druid

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    I only wish there would be a separate forum section for the so-called "hate threads" (it can be called "civ5 criticism" or something similar). Currently useful threads are in minority in general discussion, which is flooded with those describing how bad the game is.
     
  7. charon2112

    charon2112 King

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    Okay, we've both been reading these forums since Civ V's release, and we both know who has been doing the attacking. Although, I don't blame you guys for backtracking now and trying to change history. But, the threads are there for any who feel like searching for them. Since you don't really have much to say, I'm going to click the fabulous "add to ignore list" button. It's cuts down on a lot of the hostility and attacking and has made CFC a much more pleasant place to be.

    Cheers.

     
  8. charon2112

    charon2112 King

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    It's come up before and any who suggested it were ridiculed by guess who...the haters. It's no good, they want their noise to clog up the forum and bury the positive discussion.

     
  9. Peregrine

    Peregrine The Swift

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    It's obvious who is trying to "change history." Ignore me if you like. This is typical of those who are defeated in debate--refusing to admit it, and denying the fact.

    cheers :rolleyes:
     
  10. The_J

    The_J Say No 2 Net Validations Retired Moderator Supporter

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    Moderator Action: Everyone who wants to get infracted can feel free to continue to post in this style.
    Discuss the game. Don't discuss users.
     
  11. Aristos

    Aristos Lightseeker

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    J, just two posts before your warning, there is the 1,000 time in the last few pages that the same individual uses "hater", yet no action to him. Remember our private debate yesterday?
    Moderator Action: And another reminder here: Public discussion of moderator actions is not allowed in this forum. Further answers to this post will get infracted.

    As for the discussion, I think the debate about user's attitudes (not users) pertains to the game, and big time. I think the debate about attitudes should be allowed, as it has the potential to define the future trend of the franchise. I think there is no game discussion without attitudes discussion, simply because the greatest "merit" of this iteration has been the defnitive polarization of this community. It is part of this iteration, like it or not, and should be part of the discussion; not the persons themselves, but the attitudes.
     
  12. Peregrine

    Peregrine The Swift

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    I agree with the above. If stones are hurled, why should critics simply endure it? Critics are attempting to communicate. Anti-critics are attempting to halt communication. I don't like self-nominated censors.
     
  13. sketch162000

    sketch162000 Warlord

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    Well said. This is a discussion we need to have as a community.
     
  14. PawelS

    PawelS Ancient Druid

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    I don't think this discussion will lead to anything useful, it reminds me of the Polish politics where the two main parties accuse each other of being aggressive.

    I don't think my proposal to make a new forum section will get implemented, so I guess both sides will have to live with the state of this forum more or less similar to the current one.
     
  15. JoxerNL

    JoxerNL Warlord

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    I actually agree with you, the problem for me is repeat threads.
    Not when it's just 1 or 2 repeats but topics that have very long and well defined discussions within their pages already.

    As an example let's just take a glance at page 1 of the forum :

    Who stopped playing?
    http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=400586
    Do a search how many of these do we have?

    I miss the end of game summary
    http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=400544
    Very old old topic, why does it need a new thread? someone in the community already made an "endgame summary" on a website.

    Game fixes still not out ?
    http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=400181
    This is about the 3rd of 4th of these threads, we even had threads discussing the next set of fixes...

    I know why the AI sucks with out the abilty to cheat
    http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=400190
    Really?

    Ungrateful AI
    http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=400558
    Again discussed to death, believe there is a thread of over 8 pages for this one.

    Why is Civ5 so unappealing?
    http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=400351
    This was discussed since day 1!!! did it really need a new thread?

    civ revulations console game vs civ 5
    http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=400182
    Guess what? not new and not exciting.. we had comparisons of each civ vs civ 5, why a new thread?

    Civilization VII - Early Preview Screenshot
    http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=400676
    There already is a great thread about this, making fun of civ 5 for the people who dislike it or are making fun of it, why do we need yet another one with the "exact" same type of content?

    And that is just page 1 of this forum, i really dont mind good arguments why civ 5 sucks, and alot of people have very good points they put forth.
    But to just drone on making new thread upon new thread about how civ v sucks because of reasons already discussed in plenty of other threads is just redundant and imho spamming.
     
  16. sketch162000

    sketch162000 Warlord

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    Here's the thing, though...you are bumping duplicate threads when you post complaints about the duplicate threads. If you don't like them, ignore them. This is one of the things I have to call Civ V fans out on. Why are you even reading the obvious hate threads?
     
  17. JoxerNL

    JoxerNL Warlord

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    I didn't, as i said i just took a look at page one as an example, opened each topic that resembled to other topics i have read, read the posts in it (fast reading skill helps here(and no not skimming ;)))

    As for reading hate threads, cause some of the well defined discussions have very good outcomes, i'd say most of those discussions are worth reading, for people on both sides of the poverbial coin.

    Both sides are right in the case of Civ 5, as to why and how, im not going to post my reasonings as those should be in a completely diffrent type of topic :)
     
  18. Peregrine

    Peregrine The Swift

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    Joxer,

    Nice to see some consensus and less polarization. You too have a good point. I very rarely start threads, so perhaps I'm not the ideal candidate to reply, but here's my comment; Without looking too closely, it seems that a great number of critical threads are started by different posters. (I could be wrong) I'm not sure that it's a reasonable expectation that new posters be required to view all previous threads prior to starting one of their own. It might be. Granted, someone who is thinking would tend to punch in their particular grievance to the search, and then find out if the issue has already been addressed, and then post there. I do that. My guess is that most of the new thread starters are responding in a passionate mode and are not thinking in these terms. While I will agree that it can be annoying to see multiple threads addressing the same topics, given the way the forum functions, and the clearly poor reception the game is receiving, this seems inevitable. Not good, but a by-product of the mixed reception of the release, not necessarily anyone's fault.
     
  19. Aristos

    Aristos Lightseeker

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    amazing... amazing...
     
  20. ohioastronomy

    ohioastronomy King

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    Note that this thread, for example, was pretty clearly started by someone who was puzzled at why so many folks appear to dislike the game. It's hard to pin a thread such as this on haters,etc.

    We see the repeated topics largely because new people come in and have their own particular angle. You can get something new even if the topics are related, after all; I expect some new threads from the upcoming patch when it gets released. But if you can't post anything on a subject that has already been covered...well, what's to post at all then? We don't have a greatest hits set of posts stickied or the like, so it's not as if it's trivial to excavate them. And a lot of folks get annoyed when old threads are resurrected, so you can't win...
     
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