I like their UA fine, but does anybody ever find any use for Turtle Ships or the Hwach'a? Turtle Ship: The whole point of a Caravel is supposed to be to have a unit that specializes in map exploration once Navigation is researched. Everything about the unit is designed for exploration: its speed, withdrawal, cheapness, weakness, and timing. Why would I want a strong Ironclad-like unit when I'm trying to discover the map? I pretty much have to send horses out and manually tell them where to go until I discover Navigation. Then I'm pretty much skipping over the Turtles to go to Privateers. I could see the trade-off of really strong early melee ships if the AI actually used their navy or invaded with their navy regularly maybe. But still, nothing carries over for the promotions, so I really don't see why you don't wait for Ironclads if you want strong melee sea units. Hwach'a: Why would I want a siege unit that's really strong against units other than buildings? I have the archers/gattling units for that. Or I would just use cavalry or infantry to wipe out the other units. Why commandeer my ability to attack cities for that? I know that Korea is a defensive civ, but I like to go on the offensive if I'm attacked by a hostile neighbor if I survive.