Why even bother having a trading system in this game?

[OmegaDestroyer]

Agreed. I wish I had a special casus belli for declaring a war against an annoying Civ.

 

[Bad Wolf]

OK, so then they really need to show us the resources that the AI actually has. Now that I'm aware the AI won't trade for resources it already has, this all makes sense - but there is absolutely zero indication in the game, the UI, anywhere other than CivFanatics forums and patch notes, etc., that this is what is going on. It just appears that the AI is acting belligerent and irrational for no reason, which is frustrating if you don't know why it's happening.

 

[Mr. Shadows]

I've noticed that if I give an advantageous deal to a declared friend they frequently give me an even better deal a couple turns later. It's not that they aren't willing to do business, you just have to break the ice first.

 

[CorneliusBrutus]

I've noticed that if I give an advantageous deal to a declared friend they frequently give me an even better deal a couple turns later. It's not that they aren't willing to do business, you just have to break the ice first.

Yeah, I feel like I'm taking crazy pills because I've never seen the AI offer laughably lopsided deals like this thread posits. If they don't hate you and you're offering something that actually has value to them they're going to compensate you fairly. When they want a duplicate strategic or luxury resource they make totally reasonable proposals. If you want something of theirs that isn't a duplicate or they don't like you, you're going to overpay for it.

EDIT: I play on Immortal difficulty btw.

 

[Nigel_Tufnel2]

The Better Deals (or Better Trade Deals) mod will show you what the AI is getting from their own trading/Suzerain status, plus I believe what you've already traded to them. No wasting time! I can't imagine playing VI w/o it, or w/o Better Trade Screen (routes). Both work great in R&F.

 

[Arms Longfellow]

I wonder if they don't show you what other civilizations are importing because it's classified information. Note that "Arabia is trading with America" messages come up on your gossip feed.

 

[Fisher King]

I thought the AI civs take into account what benefits you'll receive from the trade. I find the trades are fair when you both benefit equally.

 

[Victoria]

i.e.: 2 of my luxuries for 1 of theirs, which is a total no-brainer as it's literally twice as beneficial to them as it is to me)

So - is there something I'm missing? Is

Yup, but I am not sure what you are missing, persistence?
Every game I can trade lux for lux... but not initially, there seems to be some timer on this.
A denounced person will give you rubbish normally but when desperate will give you lots.
Trade with the weak and those at war and you will do better.

So for example I meet Tomyris I would expect to get on average 6 GPT for a lux but not be able to trade lux for lux until 30 turns later. If she denounced me she will typically only offer 1-10 Gold for a lux. Trading with denounced makes a difference.

Give them a favourable trade like in the Tomyris example earlier amd they will give you one back.

 

[Bad Wolf]

omg I got a reasonable AI!

I love you Robert the Bruce... until you and Poundmaker declared war on me for converting you to Catholicism lol.

Nah who am I kidding, I still love you. Your BGM and hilarious Scots-English make my day.

 

[Victoria]

Here is the current worth/cost chart for diplomacy. Look at the proposed trade line for denounced. Also you can see all others are balanced as per this chart... it does not mean there are not rules other places but I see little difference between an unfriendly and allied trade

 

[Arms Longfellow]

Wow, are you saying that an AI likes you better if you accept a deal that they propose vs you proposing an identical deal? If so, I had no idea. I almost always turned down AIs when they offered me deals because I tried shopping around to get the best deal.

Edit: although now that I look at the chart closely it looks like trade deals wouldn't really be affected by who approaches who first.

 

[bonafide11]

I must admit I played a very “nice” game to the AI in my last game and started out making very favorable trades to them. Eventually they were offering me much more favorable trades to me.

 

[Victoria]

I must admit I played a very “nice” game to the AI in my last game and started out making very favorable trades to them. Eventually they were offering me much more favorable trades to me.

Yes, this does seem to happen but there is nothing clear in the xml on it.

 

[nzcamel]

I do trading like in real life. If I don't like the deal I reject it, and I find later on they'll sometimes come to the party. I have no idea what is going on under the hood; but from my experience it seems like the AI does adjust somewhat to rejection.

 

[Bad Wolf]

What does "request assistance" mean?

 

[Victoria]

Its a jolly good question, I swapped around the 2 values, just finished playing a game where I was friendly with everyone and it did not show its head and so it must not be implemented yet

 

[Bad Wolf]

Huh.

I really wish they had some other value on "demand tribute" other than them just not liking you. Like, maybe they could factor in the relative size of our militaries before they start threatening me? I really hate in my warmongery games having to refuse a different AI's demand for tribute every single turn.

 

[Victoria]

I really hate in my warmongery games having to refuse a different AI's demand for tribute every single turn.

Yes its rather silly, especially as the AI will never accept demands unless you have an army on their border. The same rule should really apply to them making demands, do not bother unless you are threatening.

 

[Bad Wolf]

Yeah it's never the most threatening civs who make demands, it's always the ones at the very bottom of the military scoreboard who are also like three eras behind in tech... like seriously? I could wipe you out by looking at you and you're going to get pissy with me??