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Why ever pick Ancestral Hall over Warlord's Throne

Discussion in 'Civ6 - General Discussions' started by GKShaman, Oct 21, 2019.

?

I always pick

  1. Ancestral Hall

    65 vote(s)
    71.4%
  2. Warlords Throne

    9 vote(s)
    9.9%
  3. The third choice

    17 vote(s)
    18.7%
  1. Sostratus

    Sostratus Emperor

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    The free builder is right on city settle and enables turn 1 chops sometimes. You just settled territory, it’s unimproved and they give you the solution. Plus 50% settler build rate in the GP city which can be great efficiency paired with magnus and or that +50% card. The reward is instant and concentrated where you need it.

    the Warlord throne bonus can be larger in production terms but it’s delayed until you actually capture something, and it comes later in the game. Plus it’s equal to one turn of production in each city across your empire. (20% for 5 turns is 100% for one turn.) One turn! The reward is spread out over time (5 turns, in the future) and is dispersed across your empire. If it was like, get 20% of your empire production as a instant chop in the city with the throne, even though the overall effect would be just 1/5 of now, I think it would be a lot more impactful due to concentration.
     
    Elhoim and Ownsya like this.
  2. Victoria

    Victoria Regina Supporter

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    So for an SV I have a city producing 100 production late game
    +20 production for warlords
    +10 for Colonial Taxes
    +10 Amunsden-Scott
    +15 for Casa de Contratación

    That warlords is a nice concentration and I must say I do notice it when I play with warlords.

    The reality is to get ancestral hall you need to get to PP and then build it.
    Just how many settlers do you get out with AH?
    If you delay getting settlers out for AH that is hurting you.
    The 50% is not as much as you think and the first 50% card at Early empire is worth more and normally enough for most settlers.

    Do not get me wrong, AH is great but it is easy to get over excited, its all about the builder and warlords gets each 5 turn builder a turn earlier
     
    Tech Osen and Sostratus like this.
  3. Victoria

    Victoria Regina Supporter

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    @Lily_Lancer , just checked. Both apply after the governor is established. The the -2 loyalty weakens the governor while establishing
     
  4. MrRadar

    MrRadar Emperor

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    AH can be great in catching-up scenarios for example, after that stall due to getting religion and then having tons of faith for mass settler buy during golden monumentality. Then those free workers are really nice. Some maps (like 7 seas or inland sea) will likely give you lots of uncontested land for settling. But it creates some extra hassle because you want to have that +2 worker charges card when you settle.

    WT is much better if settling space is contested and you expand by conquest and/or go for DomV.

    I tend not to pick ACh somehow, although I kinda want to try ~7-city Indonesia or Khmer or Inca game and see how it goes.
    ____
    Edit: and I could not vote because of the word "always".
     
    Fluphen Azine likes this.
  5. Lily_Lancer

    Lily_Lancer Emperor

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    Okay. Then it returns to useless in my games. If you need to establish to make full use, a simple "neutralize governor" will bring you down.
     
    Last edited: Oct 21, 2019
  6. Zdarg

    Zdarg Prince

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    Additional housing in 7 cities at most? 8 if Ottomans? Versus 25-30 free buiders?
     
  7. Lily_Lancer

    Lily_Lancer Emperor

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    25-30..... I never experience that except for score victory. If you want to have that much then a settler will cost 830~980 production, as much as a wonder.

    7 cities at most? 8 if Ottomans? Yes. However its bonus only applies to established governors. You don't place Amani in your own city, Magnus is always traveling around. So you basically benefit from Pingala, Reyna, Moksha, Victor and Liang. However except for Pingala and Liang and maybe Reyna, if you appoint one of the other 4 are only appointed when you need loyalty, however Audience Chamber reduce the precious loyalty before these governors fully establish.

    So you basically only benefit from 2~3 governors instead of 7~8. However even the remaining 2~3 are vulnerable since AIs like to use "neutralize governor" to turn them down.
     
  8. Alexander's Hetaroi

    Alexander's Hetaroi Deity

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    I usually go for Ancestral Hall. If I know I'm in a tight space and will not expand a lot I'll go for Audience Chamber.
    Haven't gone for Warlord's Throne yet, but if I ever play as a warmonger I will.
     
  9. Eagle Pursuit

    Eagle Pursuit Scir-Gerefa

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    I never use chamber. I only get 4 governors until the late game and one hangs out in a city-state. And I dislike micro-managing governors, so they tend to stay put in my innermost cities. I don't want that loyalty penalty on a majority of my cities, particularly edge cities.

    I don't do a lot of warmongering. If I do, it's mostly before in the Ancient Era before the Diplomatic penalties become severe, which precedes the Throne. So it is not valuable to me.

    Which leaves Ancestor. Now, I have typically founded several core cities before it is completed, but it still gives me a handful of builders in peripheral cities, which makes it worthwhile.
     
    King Rad likes this.
  10. Zdarg

    Zdarg Prince

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    I never go for score victory, but I always tried for 2500 score for hall of fame. Even when there was no such.
    And even if you just go for plain science victory, having 30+ cities helps.
    That is, on Huge. I keep forgetting not everybody plays on Huge.
    That's easy, Just keep spamming as much Neighbourhoods as you can, and they will (almost) never neutralize your govs.
     
    Victoria likes this.
  11. Victoria

    Victoria Regina Supporter

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    3-5 * 50% vs a few builders earlier. As I said earlier, for me it is a question of how many settlers AH is going to make for me.
     
  12. acluewithout

    acluewithout Deity

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    I feel like Ancestral Hall is the Divine Spark of Plaza Buildings - you know it’s probably not the most optimal option, but it works and it’s fine.

    War Lord throne is obviously better, but I don’t want reasons to war and more production. Game goes fast enough thanks.

    The other one actually says in the SQL that it’s the building for playing “Tall”. I can’t get excited about flat negatives and I usually want at least 8 to 12 Cities and like to specialise governors so no thanks.

    So, yup, Ancestral Hall. Cute playing England and getting a Builder, Swordsman and Trade Route for settling one city.

    Agree the timing on Ancestral Hall is odd. I often find Ive built a few settlers before it’s built, and delay settling a few turns so I get the free builder.
     
    Eagle Pursuit likes this.
  13. blackcatatonic

    blackcatatonic Queen of Meme

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    yep, that's my go-to pantheon in most games so that fits :lol:
     
  14. montalaar

    montalaar Chieftain

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    nine times of then i choose audience chamber.
     
  15. Ownsya

    Ownsya Warlord

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    This is how I usually see it, crude as it may be:
    Do you plan to warmonger? If yes --> Warlord's Throne
    If no, Do you still have many cities to settle? If yes --> Ancestral Hall
    If no --> Audience Chamber
     
  16. iammaxhailme

    iammaxhailme Emperor

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    I pick Ancestral Hall probably 70% of the time, and Audience Chamber probably 25% of the time. I don't warmongle, I usually just spam cities and garrison with archers. Even with I get into an early war (which happens often since I plant a lot of cities), I will often end up wiping out an early neighbor, but that doens't last long, so there isn't much long-term use to the Warlord's throne given my playstyle
     
    Eagle Pursuit likes this.
  17. Scaramanga

    Scaramanga Brickhead

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    I like having basic rules too and don't think it's crude at all, so I can only paraphrase you:
    Warmongering = WT
    Wide = AH
    Tall = AC
    I define wide vs tall as quantity vs quality.
     
  18. tedhebert

    tedhebert King

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    I always play normal speed huge maps, and usually get to around 15-20 cities... So for me it's ancestral hall 95% of the times... the 5% is for when timing for it is just bad, like I already have built most of MY cities
    by the time I get to building gov plaza... or when I definitely know I'm going to go all out aggression.

    And BTW, the builder in every new city is NOT the only gain... 50% on settler production is huge !!!
     
  19. Zdarg

    Zdarg Prince

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    I already asked, perhaps you know: it's 50% on settler production in every city of yours or or only in the city with Goverment Plaza?
     
  20. Kwami

    Kwami Emperor

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    The 50% bonus is only in the city with the Government Plaza.
     
    tedhebert likes this.

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