Why exactly can't the AI pull of an amphibious invasion?

[clanky4]

It is a well known fact that when it comes to civilization 4, and I presume pretty much every other civilization, that the AI is completely incapable of effectively using naval units. More specifically of using naval units to launch any kind of large scale/successful amphibious invasion. In the few years that I played civilization 4 I have seen the AI launch a grand total 6, I'm being generous, amphibious attacks. By that I mean I have only seen the AI actually use boats to land units near me on 6 distinct occasions. On every one of those occasions their invasion was quickly repelled before, or shortly after they took a single city.

Why? Because in half of those instance they only landed purely offensive units, one time they only landed catapults and nothing else. While those are great for attacking they die fairly quickly when trying to defend a city. The rest of the time the AI invasion simply was not big enough. They would only send maybe 2 or 3 galleons worth of units at you and that's it. Now it is a given that the AI simply does not have the mind for anything related to naval units. They simply don't. Water is just a foreign concept to them seemingly thrown in at the end of the development process.

So my question to you: Why exactly can't the AI pull of an amphibious invasion? Is it purely their ineptitude in properly stacking naval units, poor 'planning' in loading transports, or simply that they will only delegate a few units to 'amphibious assaults'?

 

[s.bernbaum]

I can't answer why but I can say I have seen many ship borne invasions in my games. That is probably because I play mostly Fractal or Archipelago maps, where it ends up pretty much impossible to invade otherwise. I have seen them invade each other quite successfully. OTOH, I agree that most of the time when they invade me, the force is almost always ridiculously small and always unsuccessful.

 

[bhavv]

I've seen the AI launch massive and successful naval attacks many times in Civ IV, and much more better than in any other Civ game.

 

[traius]

Based on purely anecdotal evidence, I think K-mod improves their ability to launch naval assaults. Some guy psoted recently that in his k-mod modded game they launched an invasion of 70+ grenadiers, rifles, cavalry, and cannons

 

[ringwraith18]

I can't answer why but I can say I have seen many ship borne invasions in my games. That is probably because I play mostly Fractal or Archipelago maps, where it ends up pretty much impossible to invade otherwise. I have seen them invade each other quite successfully. OTOH, I agree that most of the time when they invade me, the force is almost always ridiculously small and always unsuccessful.

I see the same and I mainly play continental maps. It's more or less inevitable if there's an enemy on another continent that's run out of AI civs to bully.

 

[rah]

Part of the problem was the change made after vanilla that siege couldn't destroy units. But they neglected to change the programming for how the AI used them. As a result the game still thought a stack of siege units alone was a viable attack stack.

Nothing funnier than being surprised by incoming ships only to watch them disgorge a stack of cats with no support units.

 

[Windsor]

To follow up on traius post on kmod.

I posted in the "unpopular opinion thread" that Immortal-level Bismarck landed this stack on me recently:

36 rifles
15 cavalry
24 cannons

That's not only a solid size, it's well rounded and something a human could make. I've never seen Kmod AI do siege-only invasions. It's still not amazing, but a big step forward. I no longer feel safe just because there's an ocean between me and Shaka. If you defeat the first main stack the reinforcements are easy to take, but since the first stack is respectable the overall threat isn't a joke anymore.

I can't tell exactly whats changed from base BTS to kmod but the AI certainly seem to have at least a grasp over the overall concept. It seems aware it must build transports for the assault units.

If you want to play multi-continent maps I strongly recommend kmod. It's a big step forward.

 

[Zholef]

Also playing K-Mod on Immortal (on various map types), I've seen plenty of naval invasions. They're big, they're of balanced composition, and they can strike anywhere. The AI still tends to overestimate its chances, but if your neighbor on the other side of the channel is bigger than you, more advanced than you and angry (or conquest-minded), you better get your hands on some tactical nukes.

 

[lymond]

How many of you have experienced, in my case well more than once, the AI issuing a naval attack and dropping a lone stack of catapults in your land? (ofc, that would be more scary pre-BTS)

 

[rah]

For me that is the standard, not the exception.

 

[clanky4]

How many of you have experienced, in my case well more than once, the AI issuing a naval attack and dropping a lone stack of catapults in your land? (ofc, that would be more scary pre-BTS)

Montezuma did so in one game. More than once.

 

[civfanchambers]

It's the panic/laugh experience. First you see a large naval invasion, Dow, and you freak out. Then you have a hearty laugh when the Ai drops off a large stack of seige. Which is easily crushed.

 

[Chrysheight]

I would think that Firaxis would have put it in their AI that the AI puts more balanced, larger forces in their fleets, and even their ground forces. The current AI doesn't field large enough armies.

 

[rbj2001]

It's just that the AI programming isn't advanced enough, so you need a better AI mod. The people talking about K-mod are correct: now the AI does launch scary invasion fleets, and AIs like Ragnar are particularly likely to suddenly rock up and destroy one or more of your major coastal cities with a huge stack. (It still lacks a sense of proportionality though. I've seen a stack of 70 Infantry going all the way across the map to take out a tribal village with a couple of longbowmen in it. )

 

[Timsup2nothin]

Short but widely applicable answer:

The AI sucks at warfare.

 

[CaterpillarKing]

Short but widely applicable answer:

The AI sucks at everything.

Fixed

 

[ThorHammerz]

Short but widely applicable answer:

The AI sucks at warfare.

At least the AI (especially in K-mod) can *somewhat* grasp how to use the system - Civ 5 AI = sitting ducks against another non-AI player.

 

[nfw]

Given how easy it is to repel an seaborne assault, a better question is, why is the AI so incapable of defending against an amphibious invasion?

 

[Zacar]

Why would repelling a sea attack be especially easy? What I can see, sea attacks are a pain because your cultural borders don't do anything against them, unlike with most land attacks. It's pretty difficult to get attacked without noticing it by land, but by sea it is realistically possible.

 

[Windsor]

AI is bad at defending against amphibious invasion because they don't recognize an incoming invasion. For a human it's really easy to recognize when someone is preparing. For AIs it's always a shock when you declare on them.

In multiplayer, if you don't spot the transports before the DoW you're in trouble. So defending against an amphibious invasion isn't easy in itself.