1. We have added a Gift Upgrades feature that allows you to gift an account upgrade to another member, just in time for the holiday season. You can see the gift option when going to the Account Upgrades screen, or on any user profile screen.
    Dismiss Notice

Why is almost everybody against more police ?

Discussion in 'Off-Topic' started by Hrothbern, Mar 31, 2019.

  1. Owen Glyndwr

    Owen Glyndwr La Femme Moderne

    Joined:
    Jun 9, 2008
    Messages:
    15,586
    Location:
    Chicago, IL
    Because police are unnecessary.

    That is: there is no socially valuable service¹ which police provide which also necessitates the existence of a professional privileged class of goons with an absolute and unquestioned authority to murder whomever whenever.

    I'm not saying that police are unnecessary in the sense that there are bad actors and that it isn't socially necessary for there to be some structure in place to protect individuals of a society against these bad actors. I am speaking specifically against that structure existing as a profession.

    ¹I mean in a general mutual aid social-utility sense; the obvious and unspoken "valuable service" the police provide is the protection of the capitalist class and the enforcement of their property rights.
     
    Last edited: Apr 1, 2019
  2. Timsup2nothin

    Timsup2nothin Another drone in the hive mind

    Joined:
    Apr 2, 2013
    Messages:
    35,051
    Location:
    Perhaps in transit
    Current relevant issue in the LA County Sheriff's Department.

    The two times former sheriff, and his main under sheriff, are doing time in the friendly custody of the Federal Bureau of Prisons along with a dozen of their most egregious cronies. In the wake of that scandal we elected a guy who ran on the expected reform campaign and did make an effort to clean up the department. As usual, the hard working and highly experienced badged thugs that might have had to change their ways were given the opportunity to leave for higher paying jobs in local city PDs where they could continue their unfettered viciousness, and every crime in southern California was thrown at the feet of the new sheriff who "couldn't maintain necessary manpower because of his criminal coddling policies that put law enforcement lives at risk.," as explained in a constant stream of letters to media handed out to their members by the cop union for "sign and send" operations.

    So, now we have another new sheriff, who can't lure back all those bad cops from their new city PD posts. But he has reinstated the worst of the worst who were so egregious that they actually got fired during the brief effort at reform without getting the opportunity to resign.
     
    Bootstoots likes this.
  3. Lexicus

    Lexicus Warlord

    Joined:
    Aug 28, 2007
    Messages:
    21,752
    Location:
    Sovereign State of the Have-Nots
    I don't know what it means though
     
  4. inthesomeday

    inthesomeday Immortan

    Joined:
    Dec 12, 2015
    Messages:
    2,798
    Sorry, like this:

    I imagine that much of the reputed corruption and inefficiency of police in Eastern European and Iberian countries is a combined legacy of their relatively starved economies and history of ultra-authoritarian regimes. Why then does Italy not suffer from a similar reputation? The transition from fascism to not-fascism also wasn’t necessarily revolutionary. But their economy has consistently been a world-leading one. Perhaps this suggests that economic turmoil or underdevelopment, not legacy of totalitarianism, is the best indicator of how generally unideal a police force will develop to be?
     
  5. Lexicus

    Lexicus Warlord

    Joined:
    Aug 28, 2007
    Messages:
    21,752
    Location:
    Sovereign State of the Have-Nots
    Well in the Italian context I would trace it to the revolutionary situation with the fall of the fascist regime during WW2. It's different from Iberia for that reason. But I understand the Italian police brutalize immigrations on the regular so idk.
     
  6. inthesomeday

    inthesomeday Immortan

    Joined:
    Dec 12, 2015
    Messages:
    2,798
    Ah right, sure. I guess I always imagined that was moreso the Italian equivalent of ICE but a cops a cop I suppose
     
  7. Hygro

    Hygro soundcloud.com/hygro/

    Joined:
    Dec 1, 2002
    Messages:
    22,302
    Location:
    San Antonio, Texas
    @Hrothbern walking in central Amsterdam I had stepped slightly into the street so my company and I could walk three people wide. The police drove by and the cop yelled at me like some chastising teacher lady my age— I perceived no violent authority. A bit inebriated and responding to the perceived animal nature of the situation of a random person yelling at me out the passenger side of a mellow looking car for me to get on the sidewalk, I yelled "thanks" ("Dank u wel!") back after my friends translated in about my most sarcastic Dutch voice as I complied. Shortly after the moment, all the symbolism poured in and my brain translated it into American and I was mortified.

    For in the US first off the cop would have blared me on the loudspeaker, in a much scarier car, and then if I had gotten that sassy, there would be a large and a "he had it coming" moment for them to start harassing me on top to prove a point of authority. That could have been the end of my night. The Dutch cop was being pretty reasonable: the roads there are super narrow and everyone is expected to behave accordingly, and by no means being too extra to tell me to get over a step. She didn't light up or cause a ruckus to do it. More of that is quite different than more of US police.


    I like to go on walks at night through the neighborhood. The primary danger I perceive is bored police wondering why I'm not inside.
     
    Bootstoots and Hrothbern like this.
  8. haroon

    haroon Chieftain

    Joined:
    Oct 4, 2010
    Messages:
    1,915
    Location:
    dunya
    I think generally every nations has lots of polices, the poor recruitment standard makes the institution in many part of the world somewhat corrupted. Better fix the qualities than adding the quantity because without a better recruitment's standard and better operating procedure adding more police can means adding more troubles.
     
  9. Sommerswerd

    Sommerswerd I never yielded

    Joined:
    Oct 10, 2007
    Messages:
    15,867
    Location:
    Wakanda Forever
    Reminds me of Trevor Noah's bit about getting pulled over for passing the police on the highway. I wish I could find the clip. He did some others that was about getting pulled over in general, but the first one about Americans not passing the police on the highway was the funniest.
     
  10. Lexicus

    Lexicus Warlord

    Joined:
    Aug 28, 2007
    Messages:
    21,752
    Location:
    Sovereign State of the Have-Nots
    My favorite police bit in a standup routine will always be...
     
  11. Sommerswerd

    Sommerswerd I never yielded

    Joined:
    Oct 10, 2007
    Messages:
    15,867
    Location:
    Wakanda Forever
    If we got pulled over stoned Lex, I'd definitely let you do the talking.
     
    inthesomeday, Bootstoots and Lexicus like this.
  12. Broken_Erika

    Broken_Erika Nothing

    Joined:
    Dec 12, 2004
    Messages:
    7,392
    Location:
    Glasgnopolis, Grottland
    And now for an Highly Informative Educational Video.
    Spoilerizerd for naughty launguages
    Spoiler :


     
    Hrothbern likes this.
  13. Archon_Wing

    Archon_Wing Vote for me or die

    Joined:
    Apr 3, 2005
    Messages:
    4,534
    Gender:
    Male
    "Is there a problem, officer?" -yes
    "What the fudge do you want ************?" -no
    "Do you have any.... warrants?"

    Still one of my favorite parts. :lol:
     
  14. Sommerswerd

    Sommerswerd I never yielded

    Joined:
    Oct 10, 2007
    Messages:
    15,867
    Location:
    Wakanda Forever
    This is a great depiction of why people think black people get harassed by police... "Herp derp cuz they're all dum stoopid krimnulls, if dey jes obey de lawl dey'd be fine... da perlise iz our fwends herp derp"
     
    Lexicus likes this.
  15. EnglishEdward

    EnglishEdward Chieftain

    Joined:
    Jul 19, 2008
    Messages:
    3,356
    Location:
    England
    In most western societies, there are so many laws and regulations about that it is impossible to get by without, in many peoples views, one infringing on them.
    Fortunately a shortage of human enforcers means that they do not have the resource to prosecute everyone and, provided one is polite, they rarely prosecute for trivialities.

    Unfortunately the development of automated systems of prosecution:

    does not actually require cops because the insurance companies are already requiring customers to have monitors
    installed (or be de facto priced off the road); and the EU and other places are shortly to be making them mandatory for new cars.
    Then the state will deduct each fine fom your bank account, and when that is empty, your car is remotely disabled.
     
  16. Commodore

    Commodore Technology of Peace

    Joined:
    Jun 13, 2005
    Messages:
    10,626
    Location:
    The Tiberium Future
    You know, you and I are probably a lot more aligned on this issue than you might think. I think alternative policing methods definitely need to be tried, preferably a model that forges a closer bond between the police and the community they are policing.
     
    Sommerswerd likes this.
  17. innonimatu

    innonimatu Warlord

    Joined:
    Dec 4, 2006
    Messages:
    11,019
    You know this is a feature? It allows for prosecution discretion, and for the wealthy to harass the poor with civil lawsuits. In theory the law is equal, in practice its application is discretionary, in favor of the powerful.

    Automated systems of prosecution actually cause problems with this feature, I don't expect them to be widely applied. Not that the wealthy wouldn't be able to pay the fines, but there is the embarrassment factor.

    Tracking cars is one of those things. It has been all the rage to have cars always online. With stupid security implications that manufacturers pretend to ignore. They are all investing heavily on connected cars. But as this gets more complex, it also gets more failure-prone. As everyone of us dealing with electrics and software knows, these products do not last that long. It's not clear what if any will be the enforcement mechanism as those systems malfunction. Of as the owners of these cars make them "malfunction". I see this being acknowledged as a bad idea and a huge waste of resources some ten years in the future.
     
  18. red_elk

    red_elk Warlord

    Joined:
    Mar 6, 2006
    Messages:
    11,504
    More corrupt, yes, but I'm not sure about more violent.
    The big difference between US and Russia is that in Russia very few people possess firearms and police are much less trigger-happy. If you are stopped by road police, nobody will demand you to keep your arms visible or remain in your car. I believe in most areas, Russia is similar to other Eastern European countries in this aspect, Romania, Bulgaria or Poland.

    Though there are few Caucasus regions (Ingushetia, Chechnya and Dagestan), where police shootouts sometimes look like this:
     
  19. Sommerswerd

    Sommerswerd I never yielded

    Joined:
    Oct 10, 2007
    Messages:
    15,867
    Location:
    Wakanda Forever
    Hey! That sounds just like the system they had in that movie The Fifth Element

    *mocking computer's voice* "You have one point left on your license... Yeah I know"
    I would really favor systems that require most, if not all the police in a given department to actually live in the area that their department covers. Besides the obvious effect it would have on the police themselves, I think it would also make the public have a more positive attitude towards the officers.
     
  20. Farm Boy

    Farm Boy The trees are actually quite lovely.

    Joined:
    Sep 8, 2010
    Messages:
    16,588
    They're supposed to take an interest. I generally wave. Kinda like I would if I was alone on the street with anyone. "Hi there, human."
     

Share This Page