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Why is Egypt considered low tier? I do great with them.About to win....

Discussion in 'Civ5 - General Discussions' started by AntPi1e, Jun 6, 2014.

  1. tetley

    tetley Head tea leaf

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    Not getting that +1 range on your war chariots is a problem. You could at least promotion-save your chariots and wait till you upgrade them to knights. Cavalry has its purpose.
     
  2. LoneRebel

    LoneRebel Emperor

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    Whoa. How did it happen? Did you lose your capital early in the game? I'm thinking it'd be more of a blow later on...
     
  3. Quitzz

    Quitzz Chieftain

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    Oh lol. Piety opener -> Organized religion. Two cities and beeline to Philosophy. Shrine+Temple as a first buildings. If u cant get your religion with this before t80 on a normal speed then u doing something stupid. It's all without any faith from a pantheon, ruins, CS.
     
  4. Princeofnigeria

    Princeofnigeria The illustrious

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    I was playing a G+K game, King or Prince dificulty (it was in a transitional period so I don't really know) on continents, standard speed and all random terrain settings. It was in the latter part of the classical era. My continent had four civs. I, the Polynesians, resided in the far east, to the near south were the Huns, the north west was home of the Aztec empire and the far west was Carthage.
    I knew war was coming, armies mounting on either side of my two cities as my citizens sat petrified in fear. Sure enough both the Aztecs and the Huns attacked in unison, hoping to kill me off while I was weak from "learning" and "building". I fought hard, but there were simply too many of them. In my final days I bought a settler and flung him into the ocean, along with one of my last badly battered Maori and a worker. I reached the second of three continents a turn before my capitol fell and had just enough time to found a new city before my original home fell. Normally I would've abandoned the game, but the role player in me urged me on. I was now behind in just about every field, but science, which I took an early lead in (though that quickly disapated as other people with more rescources advanced ahead of me) but by the good grace of the Civ gods I had something going for me. Gold.
    My new city had four deposits in its reach, and setting up a mint and market made me a fair economy again, my sales to the far off US empire and the fair Carthagians allowing me to rush needed buildings at a steady pace. I expanded anew, my new neighbors being the Siam. I had to defwnd myself many times as I kept buying off his precious city states, but after a while my archers became so skilled that they could overcome his technological edge and I sacked a handful of his cities and ended the pointless wars. I built up my culture, then my army. I planned a reconquista in the industrial era but it never came to fruition as the Aztecs were denolished by Carthage and the Huns, and my old capital had been transformed into an insurmountable super fortress.
    I won a cultural victory before Attilla could launch his ships to the stars, and in my last turn I was able to retake my capital, though it was mostly a symbolic victory as the nuclear bombs I had to use rendered it useless as a point of command.
     
  5. bhavv

    bhavv Glorious World Dictator

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    Instead of having +20% wonder production, you could get the wonder techs faster (Korea, Babylon, somewhat Maya).

    Maya can get a fast early GE and rush a key wonder, that's loads of turned saved in the early game.

    Aztecs can get a large population faster, which means more science, and more tiles worked for production towards wonders. Inca can build high food and production cities with their UI.

    Songhai can get loads of gold, especially with raging barbs which means focus on wonders, rush buy everything else, so many more turns saved than Egypts UA.

    Civs with coastal bias can set up naval production trade routes to outdo Egypts production bonus easily, plus take a social policy for +3 production in coastal cities.
     
  6. lindsay40k

    lindsay40k Emperor

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    Who cares if Burial Tomb feeds the enemy more money for taking your cities? If there's a carpet of Ballistae and Legionnaires outside Alexandria and the city's on 25% HP, just sell the damn thing. And if the AI has their units play musical chairs whilst you gun them all down, you're probably in Piety anyway and can rebuild it in like three turns.
     
  7. megabearsfan

    megabearsfan Prince

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    I'd say this is pretty spot-on.

    I only have two things to point out.
    RE: 1.)
    The wonder production boost also applies to National Wonders. So even if you don't go for the ultra-competitive world wonders like Great Library, Hanging Gardens, Great Wall, etc, you can usually still get one or two early wonders, and you always get your National College, National Epic, Writer's Guild, Circus Maximus, and East India Company more quickly and get back to building units and buildings.

    RE: 2.)
    The UU is lackluster, but does have some niche uses: you can use it as an alternative to Scouts if your first one or two aren't enough. They are also good at Barb-hunting early, since Barbs are generally bad at dealing with ranged units. Finally, not requiring horses allows Egypt to sell its horses to get some extra early income.
     
  8. Blueboots

    Blueboots Chieftain

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    I don't believe you can sell zero-maintenance (or +gold) buildings. You can't get rid of Burial Tombs. I don't believe the penalty negates it usefulness, though.
     
  9. Calouste

    Calouste Deity

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    Egypt's UA works from turn 1. Everything else you mention doesn't.
     
  10. tetley

    tetley Head tea leaf

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    Just did Egypt, and chariots are all right. I think the issue is how much it depends on the map. Nebby can spam bowmen and own any land map. Egypt, not so much. However, on an open map, my chariots did take the first AI's settled cities and pillaged the heck out of his cap. With raging barbs on and honor tree, it was nice to connect my cities together and let the chariots defend the roads. Farming xp from 30xp-60xp was harder than for bows, but easier than if they had been horsemen. Not long after I researched chivalry I had 5 knights with heal-every-turn promotion. It's a different playstyle, but on open ground it works.
     
  11. Ryika

    Ryika Lazy Wannabe Artista

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    Well, it's active, but in most games you won't make use of it until ~turn 80 or whenever you start the National College.
     
  12. bhavv

    bhavv Glorious World Dictator

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    On turn 1 and throughout the early game, your production is going to be too low for it to make much difference. And it only works while building wonders, while all the other bonuses I mentioned work with building everything.

    What matters most for building wonders is how many turns you can save towards wonder construction, and there are many more useful ways that can be done.
     
  13. ixias

    ixias Warlord

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    I personally really like Egypt. I wouldn't say they're top tier, but people definitely overlook them

    #1. Yes, wonders are harder to come by at higher difficulties, but people seem to forget that it also means a slightly faster National College and National Epic, two national wonders you want fairly early, especially on higher difficulty levels. Plus, mid game wonders are a bit more attainable and late game wonders are much easier. It's a matter of perspective. It's good even if you only use it for a faster NC.

    #2. The Chariot Archer is a bit lackluster, but it isn't a bad unit. The fact that you don't need any horses, it's ranged, and has good ranged strength makes it great for helping out with barbs, early rushes, or early rushing. By no means a great unit, but it's usable.

    #3. The Burial Tomb is the reason to play Egypt. A maintenance free building that gives 2 happiness? How can you not love it. As said before, if you're against it because it gives the other played more gold for capture, you have bigger issues in that game. It's not too difficult to get Burial Tombs that give +2 Faith, +4 Happiness, and +2 Culture, all in a free building.
     
  14. Syailendra

    Syailendra Prince

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    you missed my points. The extra hammer (shaved turns building wonders) is easily replaced by any other civs ability while that civ ability is works on other department beside of wonders. That is egypt on the losing side.
     
  15. TractorBoy

    TractorBoy Prince

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    On the subject of burial tombs, as humans, we are aware of the treasures awaiting given that Egypt are one of the AI Civs. In our process of domination we would put Egypt to one side until we are pretty sure that they have built their tombs, I was just wondering if the AI are programmed the same way?

    I might be wrong about this, but it seems to me that the AI have been programmed to attack Egypt for the proceeds of conquest and it invariably happens before the burial tombs have been built!!
     
  16. Acken

    Acken Deity

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    Like I said on page 1, people that compare Egypt to the like of Babylon or Maya completely miss the point.
     
  17. Syailendra

    Syailendra Prince

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    okay, lets compare with other lower civs then.
    Songhai extra gold is easily shaved some turns buying worker. That earlier worker provides you earlier chop, thus earlier something (wonder).
    Russia, extra hammer and more gpt selling excesive strat. Rome, faster build time in later cities = faster national wonders. Iroquis, less road build = earlier pasture and mines = faster extra hammer for early wonders. Soshone, extra citizen from huts + techs = shaved turns on wonders and buildings, don't forget bonus tiles which offers chance to work better tiles faster. Huns, free animal husbandry = early extra hammer from horses.
    As for burial tombs, it is a temple replacement, a bad positioned building, by the time they are available, the race to religion is considered summed up and you usually have tons of other more strategic buildings by then. Extra happiness is never bad though.
     
  18. Chabshaile

    Chabshaile Chieftain

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    Egypt +20% wonder, add in Tradition for +15% wonder, thats 35% wonder bonus. Add in a free happiness building with faith built into it and you have a fun time. UU is allright, its not great, its not bad, its an average unit that gets its job done with no strategic resource and waits for its upgrade. Are they top tier? No. Are they mid tier? Yes. Are they fun to play and use all that happiness to go wider then Rosie O'Donnel? Yes.
     
  19. Nick Carpathia

    Nick Carpathia Unleash the HAARP

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    Low-mid tier, but it's certainly not unwinnable.
     
  20. LoneRebel

    LoneRebel Emperor

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    That...is an epic story. Never give up, huh.
     

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