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Why is school giving me negative research points ?

Discussion in 'Bugs and Crashes' started by code99, Mar 28, 2012.

  1. code99

    code99 Chieftain

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    ... bug or something ? or its some game mechanics i dont fully understand ?



    This is happening at most of my cities...
     
  2. Flinx

    Flinx Chieftain

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    It replaces monasteries, so if you have one or more (i guess you have around 3 to 4 in your city) the benefit of one school doesn't outweight the benefit loss of several monasteries.
     
  3. DRJ

    DRJ Hedonist

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    Why should you ever build a school then before monasteries lose their science output (I think we all could agree that today not so much new science is created in the remaining monastaries...)

    In my opinion, once the school is available the monastry bonuses should b expired.
    Also, and some people will hate me for this, I think if you have several monastaries, the :science: you get for them should be lower the more you have.

    For example: 1 monastery = full :science: benefits from it; 2 monasteries = 3/4 of the :science: benefits; 3 monasteries = 2/3 of the :science: benefits and so on
     
  4. code99

    code99 Chieftain

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    Thing is i dont have any monasteries in that city ... ok i have one but its from christianity and the school doesnt replaces that.

    Whats the reason behind that?

    EDIT : Ok apparently the school replaces christianity buildings aswell even if they are not listed there :|
     
  5. DRJ

    DRJ Hedonist

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    history - name me a city in history where different religions monasteries each contributed much to the progress of the state, I can't find one but babylon maybe - although the only science I see there was astrology by the babylonians and 'ancient hygiene' by the kosher and circumcision (reason not only hygiene but also early form of 'branding' the heard as well, so +%national stability :mischief:) laws of the jews. The other cults in Babylon gave surely culture by myths and rites that part I am ok with but I wouldn't say that more than 2 faiths contributed :science: to cities throughout history. In some places in Spain and Byzantine orient met occident, in India islam met hinduism and buddhism, all of which had their techniques, true, but mostly there where times when one religion had like at least 50% of the people while the others where minorities, so their% of contributed :science: should lower the whole % of science of all monasteries combined, nevertheless, building a monastary would still give some :science: but not as much as before.

    It would limit the spamming religion exploit to some extend as I don't think this is historically accurate or gameplaywise intended.
     
  6. code99

    code99 Chieftain

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    Well when you put it that way :)
    Good point actually, i can agree with that. It would solve the spamming ...
     
  7. Hanny

    Hanny Chieftain

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    Think thematicly, they are religon based centres of learning, once you arrive at my God is the best one, the rest of your time is spent in thinking clever thoughts, hence the beakers, or producing Icons or nwhatever So Byzantine Monastries, are Islamic madrassa, each contributed something different to Byzantium/Constatinople.

    It was in monstries that Western civilization, as we know it, had survived, as it was in them that the knowedge of the past was held, and much of what we know we have because they had it, copied itbinto differnet langauages and spread it across Europe. Ditto Islamic counterparts.

    What did Luthern monastries do for German cities that catholic ones did not, did they make progress because of it?.


    Said Henry VIII after the disolution of the Monastries.....
     
  8. JosEPh_II

    JosEPh_II TBS WarLord

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    DH told me this was not going to happen. That Monasteries research would be reduced when schools became available. But Not eliminated. I think someone made a change that maybe should not have been done.

    @DRJ,
    Why do you think you are such an authority on almost everything? Have you no humility in your soul?

    @code99,
    Why would you agree to that? Just because DRJ said so?

    JosEPh
     
  9. DRJ

    DRJ Hedonist

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    I just posted it to make you angry, to be honest.
    No, seriously, I just tried to reason and argue with historical constellations which in my kinda marxist mindset are the true authorities and as Marxism is a science, authority comes from facts, I am just mediating the facts that I crossed in my life (and there are many more that I yet have to learn about).

    By personalizing your anger about the facts I quoted and projecting the authority into myself rather than dealing with the facts you do what old conservatives mostly do (young ones too :rolleyes: ): trying to fool the others while blindly fooling yourself.
    Don't get me wrong, I don't want to hurt you with the truth - it's just I like you enough to not lie to you.
     
  10. Koshling

    Koshling Vorlon

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    Yeh, reduced was my understanding of where we reached a more-or-less consensus also
     
  11. Hanny

    Hanny Chieftain

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    No, its an ideology, ( flawed and failled one at that) which is why its not taught as a science.
     
  12. DRJ

    DRJ Hedonist

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    Your statement is ideological as well. And although there may be flaws in marxist theory the thing that charms me about it is that it doesn't say it is like a bible, to me, as a freethinker, it's like basic concept of historical processes, something that is always able to adept to new facts and criticism (at least for non orthodox marxists).
    After all, facts are interpreted one way or the other but dealing with facts out of the perspective of ideology can be a science, too. Thats why theology is a science as well. And that's why in regards to Civ, to get back to the topic, I am all for it that monasteries give :science: to the universities archaeological and theological faculties, not a general %bonus after beginning of industrial age though. And I also think that in early monastery days, if you have more than one monasteries in a city, the additional ones :science: increase is gradualy lower - as described in two posts above.
     
  13. Hanny

    Hanny Chieftain

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    Incorrect, your appeal to authority was unsound.

    Btw Theology is nota a science either.
     
  14. DRJ

    DRJ Hedonist

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    Ok I won't argue with you further, it doesn't seem to be constructive from your side in terms of the topic and thus:
    @Joseph, you found a companion in hating me, good day, sunshine..^^

    Note to myself: I really asked me where the more conservatives had been concealed at,
    wouldn't be C2C democracy game without you guys, so :cheers:
     
  15. Dancing Hoskuld

    Dancing Hoskuld Warlord

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    I have only been looking at the techs, ie reducing the science output from monasteries at Sic method (old Bts obsolete) and obsolete at Modern Physics (C2C obsolete). I have not done all yet. I do remember one of the options in AND replacing monasteries with schools. Perhaps that is the culprit. I'll look into it, but right now I am late. ;)
     
  16. code99

    code99 Chieftain

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    not really, i just thought he made some good points about that ...

    Im not saying monasteries shouldnt have research but i dont like the way you can spam with them and get research, alot ... there should be some limits or something.
     
  17. JosEPh_II

    JosEPh_II TBS WarLord

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    I don't hate you. Nor have I ever said that either. But I do dislike your arrogance. And if I remember correctly it was you that said, "you had never found a post of mine you liked". You've not given me any reason to be your friend but plenty for being an adversary. You reap what you sow. You want friendship, sow some. It'll come back to you.

    Oh by the way you'll soon find another thread where I'm not in agreement with you. Just letting you know.

    JosEPh
     
  18. Aevum

    Aevum Chieftain

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    I don't think anyone here is argueing the importantance of monestaries in science. Almost all littierary works that survived the fall of rome and following fark ages were thanks to monks, saving, copying, and keeping the books alive.

    Martin Luther, was the first person to translate the Bible into a common mans language, (german in this case) which allowed and advocated the average man to read and cause a reformation, not just of the protestant groups, but a freedom that led the Bible to be translated into every language.
    Who doesn't like a guy in robes who can translate 3 different languages AND promote reading and comprehenstion to the masses? lol
     
  19. DRJ

    DRJ Hedonist

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    It's not about if monasteries give benefits, it's how many can give benefits the same time and if yes how much they shall all give; I argued for a gradual setting that each new monastery still gives a surplus of :science: but not as much as the one before.

    We also discussed the matter of when the effects will decrease, if so.

    I guess the Jews didn't like him, as he had some hate-speeches left for them. The peasant insurgents Luther spoke against (in behalf of the north/eastern german province princes, who feared a slopping over of the south/western insurgencies into their territory) didn't like him either. He was a (paid for) demagogue and reactionary in these matters, imho (and his ideological reform was as well a tool for the north/eastern princes to draw more individual power to themselves in opposition to Rome and the Kaiser, that's why they granted him asylum, aside the theological arguments).

    Btw, to quote wiki "In historiography, the German Peasants' War (1524-1526) also formed the basis of Friedrich Engels and Karl Marx's concept of historical materialism."

    :coffee:
     
  20. Aevum

    Aevum Chieftain

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    ?? Where did you even find this info. I have to disagree with it.

    A. You mean, He didn't like the Jews much, as he spoke out against them. Although he also spoke out against catholic cannon law. Amd they tried to kill him, if anyone didn't like him, it was the Pope lol.

    B. Heres a simple wiki piece. "German Peasants' War of 1524–25, during which many atrocities were committed, often in Luther's name" ".. the revolts turned into war"
    "During a tour of Thuringia, he became enraged at the widespread burning of convents, monasteries, bishops’ palaces, and libraries." At which time he condemned the peasents for thier actions. Otherwise...they did it in his name. Hardly hatred.

    C.He wasn't a demagogue at all. His views were religously based, and not politically motivated. He never wanted, and even turned down the option of being a new 'pope' for the Luthern sect. So he obviously didn't do it for power.

    D. A tool for the princes? He lived exiled under protection of Fredick the Wise.
    'He saw Luther as unjustly persecuted because Luther could not be found guilty of any real crime.'
    'Frederick, however, had little personal contact with Luther and remained a Catholic.'
    About the other later 'luthern princes,' they formed the Schmalkaldic League, which was a defensive allaince when the HRE threatened to send the imperial army after the reformers. Charles and the HRE started the The Schmalkaldic War, not them.
     

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