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Why is the western world declining?

Discussion in 'World History' started by Arent11, Nov 10, 2017.

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Why is the western world declining?

  1. Demography

    3 vote(s)
    7.9%
  2. General decadency, too much peace, too much welfare

    7 vote(s)
    18.4%
  3. Inner conflicts

    4 vote(s)
    10.5%
  4. There is a decline? Nope, I don't think so.

    17 vote(s)
    44.7%
  5. Other (Please specify in comments)

    7 vote(s)
    18.4%
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  1. Arent11

    Arent11 King

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    The cold war was surely the latest spike of "power" of the western world.
    Two large power blocs that controlled or influenced vast parts of the world.
    However, right now a certain decline is observable.

    The "eastern bloc" has broken down and lost a lot of its former power. And
    even the "western bloc" shows signs of internal conflicts & demographic
    decline. Economic power is slowly shifting to China, and to a lesser extent
    also south America is catching up.

    So, why do you think that is? Is it the failure of certain ideologies (Eastern
    bloc)? Internal conflicts? Or maybe you just think there is a "shift" in power
    and not so much a decline?
     
    Last edited: Nov 17, 2017
  2. Crezth

    Crezth 話說天下大勢分久必合合久必分

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  3. Tolina

    Tolina trust the pillars with your s e c r e t s

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    I blame the sudden decrease in white young men in khaki pants.
     
    Sonereal likes this.
  4. JohannaK

    JohannaK Careless Whisperer

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    The decline of Western Civilization happens because some braindead people think there is some point to decline from.
     
  5. Cutlass

    Cutlass The Man Who Wasn't There.

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    Conservatism.
     
  6. Arent11

    Arent11 King

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    Apparently the mere suggestion of a decline of western civilization
    is a serious insult of the feelings of some people :mischief:

    Sorry, but you have to face that the western world is not, anymore,
    the sole centre of the universe. You are not the coolest, most
    powerful, most fashionable guys in the world anymore. Does that
    make you feel antsy?

    You can, of course, argue, that the western world is not so much
    declining, but other countries are rather catching up. But I haven't
    seen this argument so far.
     
  7. Crezth

    Crezth 話說天下大勢分久必合合久必分

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  8. JohannaK

    JohannaK Careless Whisperer

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    It seems as though some idiots do think it was ever the center of the universe. Pity the fool.
     
  9. Arent11

    Arent11 King

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    Apparently some people are extremely aggravated
    by that topic. Could you maybe explain why it
    incites you that much? :rolleyes:
     
  10. Crezth

    Crezth 話說天下大勢分久必合合久必分

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  11. Arent11

    Arent11 King

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    So, what part of the question is poorly formatted, so I can reformat it?
     
  12. Denkt

    Denkt Reader

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    Declining, in what way?
     
  13. Arent11

    Arent11 King

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    The European Union lies in shambles, there are obviously inner conflicts in the US. Military power &
    political influence is strongly declining, economic power is slowly shifting to other countries.

    Right now, I would argue China is stronger than USA. But I accept that other people might
    think differently.

    Of course there is military, economic & political power, which can be roughly measured.
    The statement that "there is no point to decline from" is not very clever.

    But I accept that maybe my OP was poorly explained. I edited it & hope it is now more clear.
     
  14. Denkt

    Denkt Reader

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    So you don't care about stuff such as people pretty much everywhere is better off nowdays than ever before. World is more tolerant today than ever before and pretty much everything is better.

    Why care about military or economical power, it is not that stuff that make the world great anyway.

    The world is not particular nice under western control anyway, so not something that should be missed.
     
  15. Arent11

    Arent11 King

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    That is not the topic of the thread. Of course we can also talk about the general
    economic welfare of the world, but maybe in another topic?
     
  16. Denkt

    Denkt Reader

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    What you call decline and what I call decline are two separate things. You say the western world is declining because its relative power is weaker. I would say decline meaning return back to what western world was a number of decades before.

    So why is the western world declining, because it stopped being as oppressive as it was which In my view means progress.
     
  17. Arent11

    Arent11 King

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    Of course you can argue that other countries rather "catch up" instead of the western world "declining".
    You can even choose the answer "Decline? No, I don't think so" in the poll. That's why I added that
    choice.

    Regarding absolute vs relative decline, I would argue that this only holds if you factor in technological
    advancement. Of course, technology today is more advanced than decades ago & you can argue that
    therefore, Europe or USA today are "stronger" than decades ago. But if you ignore tech, you would
    have an absolute decline in power at least in military & political areas.

    I also want to point out that this is not about ethics. According to your view, China would be "backwards",
    because it is oppressive.
     
  18. Denkt

    Denkt Reader

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    The conventional military power of western countries have proven to be very effective in modern times. And don't make the assumption that western countries can not mobilize like they could in ww2 because they very well can. Don't make the assumption that western countries have grown military soft as far as I have seen they seem to be capable to destroy their enemies more effectively than they could during ww2.

    It is very hard to say if they are relatively weaker military given they seems very capable of beating their enemies then they have to. You have to consider that stuff have changed like nukes which did not exist during the time of for example the British empire.

    Stuff was much much cheaper before which is why ww2 militaries could have so large amount of equipments. Like a destroyer today may cost more to build and equip than an Iowa class battleship did (even considering inflation). However you get what you pay for so that is why massive amount of poor equipment is no longer used. I think some of the aircraft projects USA have cost as much if not more than the total amount of aircrafts USA built during ww2.
     
    Last edited: Nov 11, 2017
  19. Arent11

    Arent11 King

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    I would argue they can not because of political & demographic reasons.
    If you add modern technology, you are right. But apart from that, Western
    countries could, in my humble opinion, not bring the same cohesion &
    manpower to the table as some decades ago.

    The good thing is that the same is true for other countries. And that is a
    good thing for everyone living in the world right now :)

    The same is true for political cohesion. Ukraine was not defended by anyone.
    I'm not so sure western countries would stick together, if a real threat would
    arise. I rather believe they would try to appease it.

    In the case of economic power I think it is only a "relative" shift: Western economic
    power is not so much declining, it is rather other countries that are catching up.
     
  20. Denkt

    Denkt Reader

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    It took quite alot before they started to stick together during ww2.
     
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