Why is there this strange complaints and negativity?

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Mustakrakish

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I saw a youtube comment that called civ6 "a cartoon version of total war". This comment makes me think that this person maybe does not really understand what civ is, if they are comparing it to the total war series. This person was obviously expecting civ to look like total war. So I do think the negative comments are a product of people's expectations. When something does not meet our expectations, it is normal to have a negative reaction.

Yes? And? Are we stating the obvious now? If I'm getting a cake for my birthday and expect it to be my favorite homemade cheesecake and then it turns out to be some cheap chocolate cake from a market freezer, I'll be slightly disappointed as my expectations were not met and I might even throw a few "negative comments". Now if my "negative comment" for the chocolate cake will be "that's a crappy burger" (per Total War example), now that would be outright idiotic from me. But in the end I have no idea why I'm writing this and what point I'm trying to make here, it's completely lost to me by this point. Moving on... :blush:

Because it looks like a civ5 mod more than a brand new game.

Must be one hell of a mod with reworked / new engine (but let's ignore this, it's not visible on screen), completely new graphics for everything, reworked terrain with new features, new movement rules, reworked combat (promotions / support / walls), new worker system A.K.A builders, city states, diplomacy (remains to be seen just how good those changes will be), religion (remains to be seen just how different), spies (remains to be seen just how different), that's just what comes to mind right now. These are the changed things I'm talking about, not mentioning new features here. Basically everything been changed from V as far as I see (except for the damn AI). Feel free to prove me wrong. I might have missed something.

That being said I'm worried that this super mod will be useless due to horrible AI.

Civ6 is a mod is a good joke. How can people complaints be taken seriously after that ?

Is eu4 a mod of eu3 ?

Game X is a mod to Game X is always a joke.
 

Healz

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When I say come back I mean how many will buy it. I think even the expansion packs may have sold, that was more in the hope it would improve. I really don't think it was designed as a Civilization Title to begin with. The Demo and mechanics felt like they were borrowed from somewhere else. Sorry but a large number were conned into buying a broken game that was mislabeled...
 

AlpsStranger

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Many people seem to mistake complexity for depth. I think your last paragraph nails it on the head...many gamers have grown used to poorly designed/overly complex games and resent "their" game opening up to a wider audience of "casuals" by "dumbing down" the game (i.e. removing or redesigning unnecessarily complex or poorly implemented features).

There needs to be a pithy coinage for that sort of crap. Basically, whatever THAC0 is :lol:

But yeah, this. So much of the vaunted "complexity" of "good old games" is really just flab. It's like feeling tough because you're a 290 lb lardass and calling a fit, ripped 200 lb bonebreaker "little man."

Pound per pound, most "dumbed down" games are actually far more complex in ways that count.
 

Healz

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But the problem is that nobody asked for these drastic changes that I know of. I want the option of changing the rules in Civ VI so I can play it properly. Nobody ever asked about one unit per tile that I know of. I want proper Civ back. If you can't do it right Firaxis don't do it at all!
 

rastak

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But the problem is that nobody asked for these drastic changes that I know of. I want the option of changing the rules in Civ VI so I can play it properly. Nobody ever asked about one unit per tile that I know of. I want proper Civ back. If you can't do it right Firaxis don't do it at all!


Huh? Nobody asked for stacks either that didn't get severely punished like in 1 & 2.

Nobody asked for borders in Civ 3. Nobody asked for Religion to be added to the series. Nobody wanted corporations added. Why did they add great people? Why did they add multiple leaders?

Dude, what do you want? You want to play slight variations of Civ 1 forever?
 

Ryika

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When I say come back I mean how many will buy it. I think even the expansion packs may have sold, that was more in the hope it would improve. I really don't think it was designed as a Civilization Title to begin with. The Demo and mechanics felt like they were borrowed from somewhere else. Sorry but a large number were conned into buying a broken game that was mislabeled...
What is "a Civilization Title"? Yes, it made a lot of changes to Civ IV and these changes seem to have resonated with many people. If you define a "Civilization Title" as "what Civilization was before Civilization V" then yeah, by your definition Civ is dead, because the Civ Formula has been modernized and much of the old stuff has been thrown out of the window. Most people, old Civ Veterans and new Players alike, seem to have embraced the new concept and want Firaxis to build upon it. Hell, the game would probably have been an instant success in the community had Civ V not been so bare-bones in the beginning.

Overall I find it ironic how some people think Civ V is "not a Civilization Title" because it made too many changes to Civ IV, but at the same time other people say Civ VI is a mod for Civ V because it's built on many of the same mechanics. Thankfully it's not the same people saying both things, because that would be pretty hypocritical, but the fact that both arguments exist is interesting. I guess you can't please everybody.

Nobody ever asked about one unit per tile that I know of. I want proper Civ back. If you can't do it right Firaxis don't do it at all!
So because of your neediness all the people who like Civ V should have the game taken from them? How pathetic.
 

AlpsStranger

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Civilization series has always been defined by changing.

33% old, 33% same, 33% new. It's a great formula.
 

Mudrac

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But the problem is that nobody asked for these drastic changes that I know of. I want the option of changing the rules in Civ VI so I can play it properly. Nobody ever asked about one unit per tile that I know of. I want proper Civ back. If you can't do it right Firaxis don't do it at all!

Well if you perhaps have billions of dollars in your pocket maybe you could pay Firaxis to make the game exclusively for you. But obviously that's not gonna happen. Civ series like a lot of series out there is evolving, changing and it cannot stay the same forever, every Civ game was different and added something new to the formula. So if you think Firaxis is going to make the game just for you or the (vocal) minority that didn't like Civ 5 (or any Civ game after Civ 1 for that matter), that's also not gonna happen, because they create the game for the majority of both old and new fanbase that embraced the changes and liked the game, and want to see Civ 6 built on that formula, because in Civ 5 not everything was flawless, and some things obviously need fixing. They don't have to make every next game revolutionary like they did Civ 5, sometimes it is better to build upon the existing formula. And please stop with the comments of telling someone how to do their job. I always hated it when people say that to each other. Why don't you do the job when you are so clever and better and seem to know everything? If someone doesn't meddle in your job then don't meddle into other people's jobs.
 

Grumpbeard

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So if you think Firaxis is going to make the game just for you or the (vocal) minority that didn't like Civ 5 (or any Civ game after Civ 1 for that matter), that's also not gonna happen

Further, it doesn't need to happen, because the earlier versions are still there. I know Civ III and IV are still played quite frequently, for example.

I have a buddy who gets really upset that D&D now has its 5th variation on the rules. As far as he's concerned, AD&D 2nd is all he needs. And that's fine, no one is making him play D&D5. And all his AD&D books are still in his home. He can still play it.

Now granted, I don't know if there's a way to run Civ or Civ 2 anymore, but I bet there is.
 

TheJokker

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Some people are flexible and adaptable while others are rigid and resist change. Each new version forces a change in one's perceptions as to how to approach the game and this is very frustrating for some people. The game is changing and it is what it is. Some will move forward while others will be left behind. Those unwilling to adapt will be angry...
 

Martin Alvito

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Now granted, I don't know if there's a way to run Civ or Civ 2 anymore, but I bet there is.

DOSBox is amazing.

Where you start to run into trouble is when you have a Windows-only 32 bit application. I keep a legacy XP machine around for this purpose.
 

rastak

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DOSBox is amazing.

Where you start to run into trouble is when you have a Windows-only 32 bit application. I keep a legacy XP machine around for this purpose.


Civ I works great. I've even got Civ 2 working minus the advisors on Win 10 64 bit.
 

Loaf Warden

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But the problem is that nobody asked for these drastic changes that I know of. I want the option of changing the rules in Civ VI so I can play it properly. Nobody ever asked about one unit per tile that I know of. I want proper Civ back. If you can't do it right Firaxis don't do it at all!

So you think game designers don't have a vision of their own of what the game they've decided to make is going to be, and should be restricted to only including features players have specifically asked for? Tell me, what color is the sky in your world? It's blue over here.

No, they're not going to add a bunch of custom options specifically for you so you can play the game you wanted instead of the game they made. And no, that doesn't mean they're not "doing it right", it just means the game they've chosen to make is evidently not the game for you. Go ahead and skip this one. It's okay to not buy games that don't look interesting to you. But complaining that they've therefore made the game wrong and that they should be catering to what you want just reeks of spoiled gamer entitlement, and that just doesn't benefit you, them, or anybody else.
 

stealth_nsk

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Well if you perhaps have billions of dollars in your pocket maybe you could pay Firaxis to make the game exclusively for you.

Or you could take FreeCiv, which is stack-based and modify it yourself.
 

Thormodr

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Considering the disaster that was Civilization 5 at launch (and still was up until Vox Populi), I am cautiously optimistic. Civ VI looks pretty good so far but we'll see in October.

I don't blame others for being negative and I hope they don't get shouted down for expressing their opinion.
 

ftl

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Everyone who wanted a new Civ basically asked for drastic changes! People who want just minor changes don't want a new game, they want expansions and mods!

That might also be why there's so much negativity. With five previous civ games, there isn't really a way to both have something new enough to warrant a new game AND have something that everyone agrees is an obvious easy improvement over the existing ones. In the last 25 (!!) years of Civ, all the obvious improvements have been done.

The way to get something worth making into a new Civ game is to strike out and find a new direction to take the game - something that will shake things up - and then see what kind of new game they can come up with from that. And yes, people will get annoyed and frustrated when something they really liked is being "shaken up", especially since yes, shakeups aren't always for the better.
 

rastak

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Everyone who wanted a new Civ basically asked for drastic changes! People who want just minor changes don't want a new game, they want expansions and mods!

That might also be why there's so much negativity. With five previous civ games, there isn't really a way to both have something new enough to warrant a new game AND have something that everyone agrees is an obvious easy improvement over the existing ones. In the last 25 (!!) years of Civ, all the obvious improvements have been done.

The way to get something worth making into a new Civ game is to strike out and find a new direction to take the game - something that will shake things up - and then see what kind of new game they can come up with from that. And yes, people will get annoyed and frustrated when something they really liked is being "shaken up", especially since yes, shakeups aren't always for the better.


The beauty of it is the old games still work. I had never realized there was a Civ I forum here to be honest. There's not only the old games to play if the new ones have alienated a person but even an old forum to chat about them good old days with like minded souls. It's a win win.
 

georgjorge

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Some people are flexible and adaptable while others are rigid and resist change. Each new version forces a change in one's perceptions as to how to approach the game and this is very frustrating for some people. The game is changing and it is what it is. Some will move forward while others will be left behind. Those unwilling to adapt will be angry...

It's not only about whether you adapt, it's also about what you adapt to.

Adapting to a better Civilization game? May be a bit tiresome after all that time getting better at IV, but well worth it!

Adapting to a worse Civilization game? Why should I?

For the record, I'm cautiously optimistic about VI. But I'm not going to plunge into each new iteration of the franchise without getting a perspective on whether it is worth it.
 

isau

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Some of these comments boggle me. "Civ V was a disaster!" Meanwhile, the game is still sitting in the top 10 games on Steam, six years after release, which is virtually unheard of.

I think some posters need to take a hard look and admit something to themselves: the game has moved on without them.

That's a hard realization to swallow, so I understand why they are defensive about it. But I also think they need to inject just a little of objectivity into their claims that Civ V was "disastrous." I wish my failed projects could be that kind of disaster.
 

bison21

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Some of these comments boggle me. "Civ V was a disaster!" Meanwhile, the game is still sitting in the top 10 games on Steam, six years after release, which is virtually unheard of.

I think some posters need to take a hard look and admit something to themselves: the game has moved on without them.

That's a hard realization to swallow, so I understand why they are defensive about it. But I also think they need to inject just a little of objectivity into their claims that Civ V was "disastrous." I wish my failed projects could be that kind of disaster.

Well the vocal minority is a big part of civfanatics. By casual standards, not even the launch was a disaster. Rome II launch was a disaster, CiV not so much. It was working- unless you play higher than Prince. Not excusing the shoddy launch here (I went to play Civ4 until G&K came out) but the tiresome tirades by some of the more 'famous' Civ4 players got on my nerves, especially after G&K and any criticism post-BnW I just can't take seriously. It's mere preferences at that point.

Re: this topic: I think this negativity is a by-product of this era where people feel unable to combat the growing exploitation via DLC, pre-order and pre-release mechanics, steam-sale deceptions that would leave any major supermarket chain in court if they did that in store. The other part is the yearning for what was. A big reason I can barely visit mmo-champ (sort of the wow-equivalent to civfanatics) is because of all the negativity towards whatever is the newest expansion. It's a cancer and if you don't have real-life friends to chat to and the online community is your only place to debate, it's dire indeed.
 
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