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Why is this game still so good?

Discussion in 'Civ4 - General Discussions' started by georgjorge, May 24, 2016.

  1. georgjorge

    georgjorge Deity Wannabe

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    I have now played Civ IV for about ten years, on and off. I play quite a bit, sometimes a lot, then take breaks for some months again. The really strange thing is: even though I've played the game for a long time and have won many Deity wins already, the game still holds new situations, new things for me to learn, new strategies. It isn't boring yet. How can this be?

    I am not a "gamer" - I hardly play anything besides Civ (though I used to). I don't know anything about Civ V - if it's good or bad - and probably won't know anyting about VI either just because I'm not bored with IV yet. From a business standpoint, this game is probably one of the worst ever because why would you buy another one?

    I'm very aware of the many flaws of IV - war AI, diplomacy, UI - but I'm still in awe of it. You all know that this game is good so I'm not sure why I am even making this thread but there it is.
     
  2. HughFran

    HughFran Chieftain

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    Okay, I can understand you haven't tried Civ 5 because you aren't bored with Civ 4 yet but have you never even been curious to try it? If you are big fan of Civ I'm suprised you haven't got the latest games. Did you play Civ 1, 2 and 3 when they were out?

    Don't get me wrong, Civ 4 is still a great game and I still play it often but as a fan of the Civ series, I always move on to the latest game. I don't think your argument about business makes any sense, Civ 5 has been consistently one of the best selling games on places like Steam, even years after it's release so I don't think it is a bad business decision to make more.

    I personally have bought every iteration of the Civ series including all DLC as have millions of other people.

    Are you not even the slightest bit curious as to what Civ 6 might be like? To be honest though, if all you have played for the last 10 years is Civ 4 then any other game in the series could be too much of a radical change for you
     
  3. Fippy

    Fippy Micro Junkie Queen

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    That's the problem for some of us, ofc from Fireaxis business pov this makes perfect sense. Making well-selling games for the masses, what you should try understanding thou:

    Players in this part of the forum not really want those simple game mechanics, we want to really think while gaming (or at least while playing Civ ;) )

    For me it's not the same series anymore, same name but totally different playstyle.
    Just disappointing, same thing happened with Heroes of Might & Magic..
    i would never play 6&7, and i loved 3 with 4&5 at least being still okay..nothing great anymore thou.
     
  4. Lexicus

    Lexicus Warlord

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    Civ 4 might possibly be the greatest game of all time.

    I have been playing it also for about ten years and see no sign of stopping anytime soon.
     
  5. vincentz

    vincentz Programmer

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    Devs:"we did it! We created the best game of all time!"
    Publisher:"ehm guys, thats not good...then we cant sell anymore games"
    Devs:"uhm, yeah, well, lets throw in a couple of bugs and make the AI a bit dumber"
    Publisher:"Perfect!"
     
  6. cseanny

    cseanny Chieftain

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    Civ 5 is a great game for casuals and for those who struggled to learn all the nuances/intricacies of Civ 4 which were necessary to truly succeed and conquer the game (at least when compared to HoF or other serious gamers).

    So if you're not in the mood to concentrate over every single turn and want a "fun" game Civ 5 is the place to be. If you're more goal oriented and ejnoy placing huge amount of time into all the subtle game mechanics/techniques to really succeed and thrive then Civ 4 is by far the best choice.

    I've got some friends that absolutely adore Civ 5. I for one think Civ 5 was a complete train wreck and quite fitting for the garbage. To each their own. :)
     
  7. zuwzuz

    zuwzuz Chieftain

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    Why are chess still one of the best games? Because when you create something which is almost perfect (CIV IV) it stays almost perfect regardless better graphics and newer release date on the next itinerary. Most gamers just buy new products because they are or sale not because they need/want it.
    I don't thinnk CIV IV will ever be beaten - for me the CIV series has been acomplihed wiyth this part and I'm happy to have played it for over ten years.
    Regards
     
  8. HughFran

    HughFran Chieftain

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    Ugh, here we go AGAIN. 'Civ 5 is a great game for casuals and for those who struggled to learn all the nuances/intricacies of Civ 4 which were necessary to truly succeed and conquer the game' - I'm not sure how you came to this conclusion but it is not true. I don't play Civ 5 because I struggle with Civ 4 mechanics, I play it because I enjoy it. I also play Civ 4 because I enjoy it.

    I've seen statements like yours so many times on this forum and it is so patronising and baseless that I don't know where you draw your conclusions from. You basically are stating that every person that enjoys Civ 5 only does so because they are too 'dumb' for Civ 4. I really wish people would stop making these assumptions because they are untrue and I would be very suprised if you had any facts to back up this stupid claim.

    I have played every Civ since the beginning and I will get the next one when it comes out. Just because your opinion is that Civ 4 is the best, is doesn't mean you can dismiss Civ 5 players as 'casual gamers' who struggle with Civ 4. I could level accusations at Civ 4 fans who constantly dismiss 5 by saying they can't move on or that they can't accept changes but I won't.

    People should not judge other people because they prefer one game over another
     
  9. Seraiel

    Seraiel Chieftain

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    CIV4 simply is the best PC-game ever made, PCs are the most common computers and the users of CFC just develop the game further and further so develop new playstyles and develop new tactics and strategies so that there's always something to learn ^^ . I'm also curious how long this will be going, for me there may be an end of gaming CIV after GM-144 because I plan to play the upcomming Camelot Unchained as I'll have a superb guild there and DAoC was just the greatest MMO ever made but I'm not sure yet if Camelot Uncahained will draw me in, as I also like to think while gaming, just acting, pressing buttons and killing 300 enemy-characters with only 6-8 players is also a lot of fun.
     
  10. Lazteuq

    Lazteuq Chieftain

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    I, too have been playing CIV4 for about 10 years.
    I think one aspect of its quality is the game's resistance to a single idea of "optimal play". Even people who have been playing for years and have deeply analyzed the mechanics have not established a clear consensus on one "ideal playstyle" Ten years after release, people are still arguing on the forums about different strategies, and the best strategy often depends on the player's specific situation(map terrain, opponents, civ traits, player's skills, etc)

    Also, I think it is so good because the player gets to choose how much to micromanage. As a 8-year old noob playing the game in 2006, I didn't really understand the mechanics well, and I didn't know many of the basic game concepts, but it was still fun! Now, I understand how the mechanics work. It is not so magical anymore, but it is still fun and satisfying to play. That is partly because choosing to micromanage does not mean choosing tedious repetition: even the finest scale macro requires thought and interesting decisions.
     
  11. georgjorge

    georgjorge Deity Wannabe

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    Hmm, how did this transform itself into yet another IV vs V thread? Aren't there enough of those already?

    @HughFran: I played the first Civ in my youth - a lot. Didn't play anything else in the series until IV. I did think about getting V when it came out, then I played IV a bit more and thought to myself "I haven't really mastered this game, why get another already?". You are right about the radical change - in some aspects of my life like gaming I am quite conservative.

    What I really want is an expansion for IV (not going to happen I know) - with better AI (might install K-Mod though), some changes to city culture, and so on.
     
  12. cseanny

    cseanny Chieftain

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    I hope you realize the only reason "here we go AGAIN" is happening is due to your opinion of my response, not my response itself which you have grossly distorted to favor your own view.

    Take a look at some of the threads in not only the Civ IV forum but also the Civ 6 forums and you'll see a plethora of threads/posts directly related to a change in gameplay from IV to V which subtracts depth, strategy, and overall game play (even from those in favor of V - which is the majority).

    You'll continually see things mentioned about "casual" or simplified game mechanics for the massess. You'll also see the reasoning behind this seems to be geared at future releases being more available on tablet/mobile and the PC (not individual but combined platforms) which will increase sales and popularity.

    There's even mention of Soren Johnsons' direction, even in Civ IV was to have a less micro oriented approach, although it didn't end up playing that way. So it's no surprise that Civ V (and probably 6) will be simplified (although Soren moved on from IV). My point? How can anyone with a non-biased view truly believe that Civ V is anywhere even remotely close to being as in depth on a strategical level as IV? They are literally leap and bounds apart in that area. Does that mean Civ V is not a fun game for most people? Of course not. Most people on these forums seem to love the game.
    Civ 5 is a great game for casusals. How is this untrue? Civ 5 is a great game for those who haven't learned the in's and out Civ IV w/ special emphasis found in parenthesis, "at least when compared to HoF or other serious gamers". How is this untrue? If a person hasn't learned all the nuances of a game how can they hope to compete at the highest level? There is definitely a higher learning curve in Civ IV than V.

    Go take a look at the current Civ IV HoF G-Major 144. Competing players are now at a point where each turn is taking 2 hours. They have already played hundreds of hours for one game and will likely need 300+ more to finish. Once again, how is my statement untrue?
    I do have friends that love Civ V. They actually hate Civ IV because they hate to micro and find it too cumbersome. They do stuff like read strategy articles which help them speed up gameplay. My style is exactly the opposite. I will take 10 hours to play a single turn if I can finish the game 1T sooner. But once again, how is anything I said here untrue?

    If you re-read my post and soak it in with new context I think you'll see you and I have the same exact view. Everyone has their own opinions and for better or worse play the game that gvies them the most satisfaction. Hopefully we can agree on that.

    Cheers. Sean. :D
     
  13. HughFran

    HughFran Chieftain

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    Yeah there won't be any more expansions so Mods is the best you'll get - some of them are really good anyway!

    I will always play Civ 4 because it is one of my favourite Civ games but I also dip into Civ 3 and 2 every once in a while lol. I will definitely get Civ 6 when it comes out but I might wait until the price drops a bit (who am I kidding, I'll be so excited that I'll buy it on the first day of release lol)
     
  14. Lazteuq

    Lazteuq Chieftain

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    YES. GET KMOD NOW. The only thing that annoyed me about it was the culture mechanics, but I suppose thats just because I didn't know how to deal with culture actually being really important
     
  15. georgjorge

    georgjorge Deity Wannabe

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    I will try out K-MOD then. Is it actually possible to win on Deity with K-MOD, or is the AI just too good for that?
     
  16. Seraiel

    Seraiel Chieftain

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  17. georgjorge

    georgjorge Deity Wannabe

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    Thanks for searching that out for me. I must have read it a long time ago because I even commented on that thread :blush: I guess I'll start at Immortal then.
     
  18. Seraiel

    Seraiel Chieftain

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    NP :) .
     
  19. Colon

    Colon Chieftain

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    I think it's just craftsmanship. Attention to detail and working on it until you got it right.
     
  20. civfanchambers

    civfanchambers Chieftain

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    Simple answer --- This game was crafted by a development team that wanted to satisfy the hardcore Civilization fans, not make a fast buck.
     

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