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Why isn't AI paying per turn anymore?

Discussion in 'Civ3 - General Discussions' started by DamImLookinGood, Jan 3, 2019.

  1. DamImLookinGood

    DamImLookinGood Chieftain

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    Attached you will find two files, one from 590AD and one from 600AD. In 590AD, each of my AI opponents will pay per turn for items, like my territory map or world map, for instance. However, in 600AD, only the Netherlands will. I have searched hard to find any differences, but I already checked with Civ Assist and no trades have been broken, they are identical, in fact there is no difference between 590 and 600 trade wise. I have not declared war on anyone. I have been engaging in a strategy of leaving my units on unroaded resources and luxuries, would that set off the AI?

    If you fast forward 5 or 10 rounds, you'll still see my AI opponents refusing to pay per turn for my items, although they are still willing to exchange their luxuries for my items and pay by cash. Nothing changes over 5 rounds in that respect.

    So what is the problem here, why aren't they paying per round anymore?
     

    Attached Files:

  2. DamImLookinGood

    DamImLookinGood Chieftain

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    In these two files, one from 590AD and one from 600AD, you'll notice AI pays per turn in 590, but not in 600. Why not?
     

    Attached Files:

  3. Lanzelot

    Lanzelot Moderator Moderator

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    Not sure what exactly you mean?! I see no difference: in both saves you get 86gpt from other civs.
     
  4. tjs282

    tjs282 Un(a)bashed immigrant

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    Haven't DL'd your saves, but what message is your Foreign Advisor giving you? If they would pay lump-sums, but your Foreign Advisor tells you "They would never accept such a deal" when you ask for GPT as well/instead, that means they don't have spare positive income right now (i.e. they are deficit-spending, even if not already flat broke).

    The Civ3 AI tends to build units until it runs out of cash, then (re)builds buildings it's been forced to sell when its Treasury hits zero. It also tends to run its SCI%-slider at max., and doesn't plan ahead when it signs a per-turn agreement, so won't account for its net income potentially going to zero/ negative partway through such a deal. That could happen e.g. because another (big) per-turn payment to it got cancelled, and/or a war(s) has 'forced' it to change from a high-commerce, high-WW government to a low-commerce, no-WW gov.

    Regarding your own payments/trade-rep:

    The AI will only accept per-turn payments from you if your net income is positive (and sufficient to cover its asking-price, of course!). If the AI contacts you on the interturn to cancel a deal while you are deficit-spending, you can click on the Foreign Advisor's face, to go to the Domestic Advisor and temporarily zero your sliders to put your income back in the black during negotiations. (Just remember to click back to the Domestic Advisor and reset your sliders before you exit the Advisor screen(s)!)

    Conversely, if one-time payments (e.g. lump-sums or techs) for the AI's wares are "Acceptable", but your Foreign Advisor immediately goes to "They would be insulted" when you suggest adding a per-turn payment as well/instead (even if you could afford it, even just as a 'sweetener'!), that means your trade-rep is shot (i.e. the AI doesn't trust you to make good on 20 turns of per-turn payments).
     
  5. DamImLookinGood

    DamImLookinGood Chieftain

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    Thank you Lanzelot. The difference is, I am able to make future GPT deals in one save but not the other. One save is from the turn before the other save. I did something or something happened to lose future GPT deals, what did I do?
     
  6. DamImLookinGood

    DamImLookinGood Chieftain

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    tjs282, thank you for your reply. But if you downloaded the saves, you would see that one save is from the turn before the other save. In the first save, all civs can do PPT deals. In the next save, none of them can. No trade deals appear to have been broken, and no supply routes appear to have been broken. What happened?
     
  7. Lanzelot

    Lanzelot Moderator Moderator

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    Hi,
    first of all: you don't need to post on my profile page. I get automatic notifications, if someone replies to threads that I was active in.
    Next: This same question has been asked in several different places now, also be another user: greatmindsthink
    Is this you as well? Note that it is against forum rules to have double accounts.

    Regarding the question itself: I didn't have time yet to look at the saves in detail. Perhaps I get to it on the weekend. But here are already two possibilities, why the AI is no longer able or willing to make gpt trades:
    • In the interturn between 590 AD and 600 AD the AI has made a trade with another AI and is now "broke". I.e. it simply does no longer have the gpt to give to you.
    • Something you did in 590 AD destroyed you trade reputation. Then the AI is no longer willing to make per-turn trades. The examples for this are plentiful. If you declare war on an AI, whith which you still have an on-going per-turn deal, then other AIs, who know the AI you declared war agaisnt, will no longer trade with you. And it does not even need to be something that you did yourself: for example if you have on ongoing trade with some AI, and the trade route to that AI gets broken (e.g. a barb galley moves on the only coast tile between your harbor and the AI's harbor, or the AI loses/sells it's harbor, or someone pillages the only road connection between your and the AI's capital...) then your trade rep is busted, and all AIs who know that AI, will also no longer trade with you.
     
  8. templar_x

    templar_x usually walks his talks

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    :)
    the 2nd and the 1st example donĀ“t talk about the same thing, Lanzelot. the AI will *pay* gpt even if your reputation is busted, it will only stop to accept *your* gpt for an upfront payment (under most circustances).
    t_x
     
    Last edited: Jan 13, 2019
  9. Theov

    Theov Chieftain

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    there's no need to post this twice, in both the general and strategy subforums
     
  10. Lanzelot

    Lanzelot Moderator Moderator

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    Moderator Action: Ok, I have merged these two threads
    Lanzelot
     

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