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Why no hitler, stalin, churchill, or mouslini?

Discussion in 'Civ4 - General Discussions' started by doug2134, Dec 19, 2005.

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  1. MattJek

    MattJek King

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    Thanks, I decided to ignore the guy (like my last post said) but I guess he's decided to keep going......
     
  2. DemonDeLuxe

    DemonDeLuxe Warlord

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    Erm... gentlemen? While I thoroughly enjoy lerning new swear words for which - sadly - there are no real equivalents in the German language ("asswipe", ROTFL!), I do not REALLY think that such a display of vulgarity is necessary. Neither is a death wish (or was it just a minor, harmless variant of cancer that was called for?).

    From my experience, Canadians in general are decent people and get along with Germans quite well. Should this indeed be a misconception on my part?
     
  3. Turner

    Turner Deity Retired Moderator

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    Moderator Action: Bain - 1 day ban. I suggest you calm down.
    Please read the forum rules: http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=422889

    If you see something against the forum rules, report it and leave it alone. This type of behaviour is not acceptable here.

    The mods do not read every post in every thread. We rely on our users to report problem posts. In the future, I suggest you report the post and walk away from the thread, instead of attacking the person.
     
  4. DemonDeLuxe

    DemonDeLuxe Warlord

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    Mod, are "priviledges" especially sharp privileges? ;)
     
  5. ceiph

    ceiph Chieftain

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    so back on topic, i guess we relized mouslini cant be a leader with out italy right?
     
  6. Turner

    Turner Deity Retired Moderator

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  7. Turner

    Turner Deity Retired Moderator

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    Moderator Action: Thread reopened.

    Anyone, and I mean anyone posting outside the rules will receive a ban.

    Keep it on topic. Keep it nice.

    After review:

    Covert22, Sorceress, Kolyana, warned for trolling/flaming.
    MattJek warned for nationality bashing, trolling and flaming.

    Please read the forum rules: http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=422889
     
  8. TylerDurdon

    TylerDurdon Warlord

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    Well at least half of the leaders in CIV IV was butchers to certain levels!!! but I would guess that it the historical "closeness" is a factor, plus, hiding the facts of facism so history could be repeated :mischief:
     
  9. Roxinante

    Roxinante Warlord

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    Yeah, correct, I'm not looking for a fight. I should go somewhat more in depth about terrorism, as I've given it a fair amount of thought over the past few years.
    I have often said of the Taliban that they were competing with the Nazis for Most Oppressive Regime of the Modern Age - I mean, flying kites was against the law! But 'terrorist' doesnt mean Taliban, it doesnt mean Al Qidda. It means the Unibomber and it means the Atlanta abortion clinic bombing. It means the Klu Klux Klan and the IRA and the Shinning Path. Your definition does include all these groups; they do seep up from the same wellspring of hate. Still, thats a pretty diverse group of people, wouldnt you say? Its hard to put a post-Civil War secret society with a vicious South American rebel group together. It is much easier to put the ideals of the nations of the Axis together; the loss of self to the State, the absolute control over all aspects of society, the disregard for the value of life. It reminds me very much of C.S. Lewis and his definition of sin in the Screwtape Letters - sin is not doing bad stuff, it is the loss of self, a self which Lewis connected to the divine.
    There is a unity of evil in the Axis, an the realization that even the oppressive regime of Stalin was not as bad as the fascists.


    Well, thats why I pointed to the most recent issue of National Geographic. It puts in frighteningly good perspective the genocides of the 20th century - spanning the Armenian massacre to the most recent genocide occuring in the Sudan. What makes the execution of millions of Jews worse than Mao's Cultural Revolution? It is, I think, the cold bloodedness of the act, as if murder had been placed on an assembly line, mechanized, even dehumanized. Worse is the monster that is merely doing a job, following orders, than the murder that is commited from rage. Why are the SS granted a particular status of evil in a species that has bred some truely horrible people? Because they did the job, they did it well, and they did it efficently. Partisans bomb a platoon of SS in Rome? Round up several hundred citizens of Rome, take them to a cave and kill them one by one.[/QUOTE]


    Perhapse its enough that we're having this discussion. I dont expect Hitler any time soon either, I'm still divided whether thats a good thing or a bad thing. I worry simply because people forget - not about genocide, not about Hitler - but about the underlying mechanisms that let democracy fail and fascism win in Germany. I dont know - I think this will require a bit more thought - I havent made up my mind yet what exactly my point is.
     
  10. GinandTonic

    GinandTonic Saphire w/ Schweps + Lime

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    Outstanding post, couldnt agree more.

    The Fascism tech in game allows Scotland Yard, which has struck me as odd. The idea behind the founding of the police force was that they were citizens, men of the town paid to do what every citizen should see as their duty in any case. As opposed to the military imposition of order seen in much of the world. Hence the uk police still dont carry guns as a matter of corse.

    Not that im saying its perfect or even still as it was, but fascism allows scotland yard?
     
  11. Teutonic_Knight

    Teutonic_Knight Chieftain

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    What about Franco (Spain)? Maybe Lenin for Russia?

    They need Fredrick Barbarossa for Germany.

    Ok, question, if Hitler or Stalin were in Civ IV, what would their 2 traits be?
     
  12. zerokarma

    zerokarma Chieftain

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    Has anyone made a Hilter mod yet for Civ4?
     
  13. BomberEscort

    BomberEscort Don't be alarmed; this is a kindness Supporter

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    If Firaxis included Hitler, the game could not be sold in Germany
     
  14. Pongo109

    Pongo109 Chieftain

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    We sent her to vegas as a 4000 point culture bomb
     
  15. Roetghoer

    Roetghoer Warlord

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    INQUISITION AND INQUISITION...
     
  16. Korpulu

    Korpulu Chieftain

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    Maybe industrious for Stalin due to the 5 year plans?
    Possibly organized.

    Hitler: industrious due to the how rapidly the armed forces were built up as well as the 4 year plans. Agressive certainly.

    police state civic for both?

    As for Rome, I would of thought Augustus or Marcus Aurelius instead of Ceaser. But then again, neither have a salad named for them.
     
  17. doug2134

    doug2134 Chieftain

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    Thanks for all the responses guys, intresting to read people opinions. I think the expansion should have some sort or russian communist leader, catherine the great? give me a break. Lenin had much more influence on the world.
     
  18. Underseer

    Underseer King

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    The ommission of Hitler and Stalin really bugs me.

    So what if they were evil? Some of the civ leaders that are included weren't exactly saints (such as history's most prolific serial rapist).

    Stalin took a backwards agrarian society and dragged it kicking and screaming into the industrial age within the span of a generation. Yes, he was one of the most evil bastards in history, but he also achieved something staggering, something that is very much representative of what players try to do when they play this game.

    Hitler took a beaten-down, defeated nation with staggering economic problems and overnight turned it into a world power feared by all. As with Stalin, he's one of history's most evil people, but he also accomplished something pretty impressive, something that again is in line with what happens in Civ games.
     
  19. Underseer

    Underseer King

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    The industrious trait is now associated with more rapid Wonders, which in turn produces more Great People. Hitler and Stalin did not foster the sort of environment conducive to creating and keeping Great People. I'm really not sure the industrious trait is appropriate for either.
     
  20. Eoin M

    Eoin M Chieftain

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    Yeah... but having Mao kinda ruins that.
     
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