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Why no "Religious" victory?

Discussion in 'Civ4 - General Discussions' started by necrolyte, Jun 10, 2006.

  1. necrolyte

    necrolyte Warlord

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    Wouldn't it be nice if there was a "Religious" Victory? Something to the effect of "All leaders have converted to a faith with one of your cities as the starting area"? This should mean though that pacifism or theocracy should be enforcable by the UN too, as well as "Free religion".

    Also, shouldn't religious wonders produce culture even after the area has been conquered? For instance, Indian religious sites today "Produce culture" in a sense, despite the fact that the Mughals and British both conquered India?
     
  2. Jaybe

    Jaybe civus fanaticus Supporter

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    Religious Victory would be a sham, because the human is MUCH more capable at spreading religion than the AI. Consider it an AI handicap to make the game more of a challenge.
     
  3. Bongo-Bongo

    Bongo-Bongo The Master

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    I dont think there would really be a feasable way to have a religous victory. Spreading religion is just far too easy, sadly, that is the best way that there probably is to get a religous victoy. It would have to be made harder to spread religion if this was to be made a victory option.
     
  4. necrolyte

    necrolyte Warlord

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    The player is also more capiable at cultural buildup.

    The real problem is that the computer never seems to use missionaries. Ever.

    Also, spreading your religion is one thing, but forcing a leader to convert is a lot harder.
     
  5. Mesousa

    Mesousa -8.38 -6.67

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    With some rule along the lines of "all other civs must share your religion for x turns" it could work well. Since leaders prefer to adopt religions they've founded themselves and it's pretty much impossible for the human player to found all religions on the higher difficulty levels, it wouldn't be that easy. The AI isn't really made for anything but Space Race, so that it has shortcomings when it comes to religion is no real argument, it has shortcomings in other areas too.

    And a victory condition like this might require more diplomacy than the current diplomacy victory (= poor man's domination).
     
  6. Equisilus

    Equisilus Unlikely

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    I've seen the computer use missionaries plenty of times. Perhaps you are just missing them being used? Do you have enemy or friendly moves not being shown?
     
  7. Silver Marmot

    Silver Marmot Warlord

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    Can you imagine how easy this would be on a duel map? Choose a civ that starts with mysticism, found hinduism, spread it to the other civ before he discovers a religion, and then he'll convert and you'll win.
     
  8. botur2young

    botur2young Warlord

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    i believe there is a mod out there with a religious victory, wherein you can win by having a certain percentage of the world converted to your religion.
     
  9. naterator

    naterator Bravely running away

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    in the game i'm playing now, qin has sent an endless stream of jewish missionaries to my civ. i was running paganism, no state religion, so he was probably trying to convert me. even since i've switched to free religion, he's still sending them. at one point i had at least 15 - 20 cities, and he'd converted all but 2 or 3! oh yes, it's random personalities, so it qin, but it's not really qin, maybe isabella?
     
  10. King Flevance

    King Flevance Deity

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    I think a good religious victory condition would be something along the lines of:

    -Must found 4/7 religions. (**Conquering a holy city doesnt count.)
    -Must spread these 4 religions out to half of the civs including yourself. SO AT max seetings you must spread these 4 religions out to every city of 9 total civs. (yourself included.)

    ** : You could even make it so that you have to Found 4/7 but additionally you must own all holy cities to obtain the victory.
     
  11. necrolyte

    necrolyte Warlord

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    Really? I've never seen another civ use missionaries on my cities. I tend to be the missionizer :D

    King-What about controlling 3 holy cities and spreading your national religion to all leaders AND cities?
     
  12. Corlindale

    Corlindale Emperor

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    There is one in Fall from Heaven, but people have complained that it is way too hard to achieve. I believe it's 80% of the world you must have converted, or somesuch.
     
  13. KingCruz

    KingCruz The People are the Heros

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    Religious victory could be too easy especially for the early religions (Buddhism and Hinduism). In which the first player to discover the first religion virtually wins if they can keep a good defense eco. etc.
    You wont see an Islamic religious victory :p (maybe, but rarely on single. Never on multi)
     
  14. Sohan

    Sohan Warlord

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    If it was a percentage in respect to other religions AND the victory could only be achieved after a certain point in time (IE: it's impossible to achieve the victory before 200 BC or something, thus giving other religions plenty of time to be founded and spread somewhat) and then you have to spread your religious influence so that it takes up 80% of the world (with the other religions totally no more than 20% of the world's religious influence)... that would be hard. o_o In fact, you'd probably have to destroy multi-religious cities (since they'd contribute to the influence of the other religions you're trying to surpress).
     
  15. King Flevance

    King Flevance Deity

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    I think the idea of simply spreading one religion is too easy IMO. A spiritual Civ can just grab a tech and farm missionaries. I havent even been focusing too much attention on religion in my current game and I probably have 60% of the world as confusians.

    I think that if you were to go with only having to spread 1 religion, then you should have to destroy all the other holy cities as a pre-req as well. Have an actual Holy War have to go on where all nations hate you for razing the holy cities. Of course, then you would have to own/found your state religions holy city as well.

    So maybe:

    -Own your state religion's holy city.
    -All other Holy Cities must be razed. (Possibly just also owned by you as well. But I think razed fits the victory type better.)

    EDIT: This would mean a diplomacy hit of -10 with all AIs in the process of going after that last city. Most likely you will have no friends. Then to spice it up, maybe have it so that you have to hold on to your holy city for an additional 100 turns after the last Holy City falls but yours. You will have a -12 with all other civs. Although, maybe if they used this idea, they should raise that modifier to -3 or -4. That way if you raze all holy cities you are looking at a -18 to -24 from all civs at the same time. -4 would be best. Even your friends would hate you then.
     
  16. Dida

    Dida YHWH

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    For religious victory to even make sense, they have to add in the concept of 'religious conflict and struggle'. Otherwise, we must ask, what do they mean by 'victory'? Victory over what?
    The answer is very simple, victory over all other religions. Granted they do add in religious conflicts, that is a religion can be wiped out either by persecution or by converting its followers, religious victory shuld be achived by:
    1) owning the holy city of your state religion.
    2) you must be the founder of that religion you try to spread
    3) 75% or mroe of the world's population must follow your religion exclusively.
    4) the holy cities of other religions can be razed or still existing, it doesn't really matter if no one believe in that religion anymore.
     
  17. botur2young

    botur2young Warlord

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  18. Jaybe

    Jaybe civus fanaticus Supporter

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    I've seen several AI missionaries in my current huge/marathon game. But, if you have a shrine with its religion spread over many cities, along with gold multipliers, then you can win by making great income while still maxing out the research.
     
  19. wiseguy101

    wiseguy101 Warlord

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    I totally agree with you. It is very easy for me to spread my religion to the A.I, but I rarely have any of my cities convert to the A.I's religion.
     
  20. Pounder

    Pounder Phaethon was here

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