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Why nuclear subs can't dive under the ice ?

Discussion in 'Civ6 - General Discussions' started by Jabulani, Nov 14, 2016.

  1. Socratatus

    Socratatus Emperor

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    This is why a lot of games nowadays are rubbish. A good game designer know how to add great gameplay without bursting the suspension of disbeliefof the world it portrays.
     
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  2. Jabulani

    Jabulani Warlord

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    Agreed.

    Devs live on Alpha Centauri and have almost zero grip on the Earth stuff.

    Subs which fires vertical missiles to other subs is a parody, an Easter Egg. Just like having Slingers firing IR Sidewinder, what a shame, even if not a show stopper that is a shame.
     
  3. MisterBoomBoom

    MisterBoomBoom King

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    The saving grace of Submarines was that they could go under ice...not the game. Jeesh
     
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  4. Silverstar

    Silverstar Chieftain

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    Order a Coca Cola with ice cubes.

    Or...

    Get a bowl, fill it with water, put a ice chunk in it, realize it sinks almost completely underwater.

    Same goes for icebergs.
    They may look tall from a boat seen on the ocean.
    They sink 10 times deeper.

    Long story short. Icebergs sink close to the ocean floor and subs don't go that deep.
    Atleast military subs don't.
    It is perfectly accurate as it is.
    FYI, you also can't get under greenland and antarctica is a continent.
     
  5. agonistes

    agonistes wants his subs under ice!

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    I'm fairly sure most of the posters before you didn't know this. Hence the discussion of 'thin' ice. And the following absurdity:

    They have, they do, and will probably continue to do so.

    It is a pretty serious "issue" for some of us, thanks. Serious enough and easy enough to fix that I wouldn't be at all surprised if it had been addressed in the patch. Its a two second fix. Not to mention the naval game can use all the help it can get. And having a nuclear response be able to flee from faster warships and scoot under the ice is a nice card to be able to play. Considering how many fans weep over the slightest historical inaccuracy, or that they have to adapt to a new playstyle, or that something else wasn't designed to their own particular specifications and the sky is falling, I'm not sure why you would pick this issue to shed your usual objectivity over.
     
    Last edited: Nov 25, 2016
  6. Ryika

    Ryika Lazy Wannabe Artista

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    The "saving grace of Submarines" was that they could destroy whole AI armies on their own because the AI didn't know how to deal with them.
     
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  7. Lazteuq

    Lazteuq Chieftain

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    Actually, some submarines DO shoot missiles at other submarines. The missile travels in air as if it was a regular cruise missile and then drops a torpedo, reducing the enemy sub's reaction time and increasing the weapon range. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RPK-6_Vodopad/RPK-7_Veter
    And I agree that its ridiculous that the subs cant go under the ice.That was a critical aspect of the cold war- Nuclear subs could shelter under the ice and fire nuclear missiles from anywhere around the poles with near-impunity.
     
  8. Jabulani

    Jabulani Warlord

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    That's extremely rare in real world and I guess only very few old soviet subs had that feature, wanna know why ? In a real world it would equal to a sudden death performing such a show from a sub therefore civ vi took an extremely rare and ancient feature and they made a rule, along with impassable ice....
     
  9. callan

    callan Warlord

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    First line Soviet anti-ship armament, actually. It would rarely be used against submarines honestly because it's a long range tool but it did come with a nuclear depth-charge option. Because at the range you're firing it, you're probably not going to know exactly where that sub is. It is a fringe example to be sure but Tomahawk missiles are commonly deployed from American subs and these have a notional anti-sub capacity also. I think that might be withdrawn from service now though. In any case, is it a better graphic for sub vs ship that sub vs sub warfare, sure it is. It hardly matters though, does it?

    The ice thing is an actual play-ability issue though, especially with the map design.
     
  10. lindsay40k

    lindsay40k Emperor

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    Here's what should be done: ice next to an ocean tile classed as 'thin ice' and Sub units can go under it in the same way that early ships can go along coastal tiles but not deepwater. When you research Giant Bloody Drills you can build a mole sub that can go under the Dense Ice.
     
  11. narmox

    narmox Emperor

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    I frankly have less issues with subs firing missiles at other subs, than submarines firing torpedoes at ground troops, the torpedo going _underground_ then hitting the ground unit...
     
  12. Jabulani

    Jabulani Warlord

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    Yep, you are right, Civ VI devs decided to boycott subs perpetratring to them so many " crimes " starting with impassable ice, then torps fired from bow only, then missiles to other subs, then torps to ground troops...clearly all the devs, Ed Beach included, ignore at all how subs work in real life. To those devs, subs are like the Unicorn or the Yeti, just mythologic creatures :lol::lol:

    Those devs also created a cartoonish tiny tug when upgrading from Battleship, I think Navy has been deliberately boycotted, that is now crystal clear even to stones.

    I would suggest to those young devs to live a while before reproducing the reality, maybe 20-30 years would be enough for them.
     
    Last edited: Nov 28, 2016
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  13. jeb1000

    jeb1000 Warlord

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    Surely you are joking? Don't know a lot about today's subs, huh?
     
  14. Lazteuq

    Lazteuq Chieftain

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    Seasonal sea ice in the Arctic is often only a few meters thick, and can easily be broken through in the thin spots by submarines while surfacing. Modern submarines have upward facing sonar to detect the thin patches of ice and evade the thick ones. In fact, this feature may have prevented or at least more heavily discouraged nuclear war on at least one occasion in the last 50 years because the under-ice ballistic missile submarines guarantee a second-strike deterrent. Submarines in open water can be detected and hunted with destroyers, aircraft, and underwater microphones(SOSUS), but they are very safe under ice.
     
  15. Drakarska

    Drakarska Epic Dadness

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    Ermmm, as a Navy vet, and former OS6, I find your lack of education concerning this particularly false thesis highly... Lacking accuracy shall we say? May I politely recommend reading Janes Fighting Ships, and perhaps reading information concerning ice bergs from NOAA before delivering such a conjecture?
     
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