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Why One Can't Win An Election?

Zardnaar

Deity
Joined
Nov 16, 2003
Messages
17,600
Location
Dunedin, New Zealand
Here's a good one for CFC. Are you self aware enough that you realize you couldn't win a fair and free election. Assume you're a public figure with some degree of support from a major political party.

Anyway here's why I couldn't win an election. TLDR I would alienate the left and the right.

Broadly speaking I lean towards social democrat policies. I don't think the free market is perfect but I'm not looking to replace it or tear down the system. More due to lack of better options than anything else.

1. Taxes. Under my dictatorial rule taxes are gonna go up. It's a progressive system but everyone is gonna pay more starting at 5%. GST would either be lowered or phased out and the first 10-20k would not be taxed. Taxes rates would be in the 25-50% range and I would be willing to go above 50% on high earners. Capital gains tax, land taxes and inheritance taxes would come back.

2. Immigration. NZ is a bit unique. Per Capita we had the highest population growth in the OECD. Whatever the growth rate is in your country double or triple it.25% growth rate over 20 years. Critical skills visa would be very streamlined though. Teachers and things like healthcare professionals (from countries we recognize their qualifications) essentially get rubber stamped. Otherwise it's getting cut by 50-75%. We have California type prices on Oklahoma wages it's a big problem.

3. Housing. Currently crashing but what's happening overseas started here about a decade ago and peaked last year. High cost of living Oklahoma wages. Basically the tax money is gonna be spent on this. We can't match Australian wages and paying poor people more money doesn't help either as it gets eaten up in rent increase. Well build social housing medium density apartments. Building industry right now will need the work looks like they're gonna collapse next year. Said social housing will be made available to teachers and healthcare professionals then expanded out to the poor as priority espicially single mothers followed by low income families with children. Rent out at 90's prices adjusted for inflation. Think $100-$200 a week for three bedroom apartment. Yes this will cost money. Move to NZ right skills you also get cheap rent. Australia will pay your more we're gonna be cheaper to live.

4. Military spending and foreign policy. As Ukraine proves running down the military is a foolish idea. Our geographic isolation means we're reasonably safe from invasion but we are part of the world and it has dual uses here for disasters. We don't need jet fighters or tanks but a few frigates with helicopter launch capacity and troop ships are useful die to earthquakes and volcanoes. They used the military for Covid quarantine and that was a strain. Improved coastguard and EEZ patrols are also needed. If we can't have a fully functional military I want the best light infantry in the world as well. If we need to send out the Maori Battalion again so be it train and equip them close to SAS standards. Is it a warcrime to eat Russians? 25-100% boost to military spending it's comparatively cheap $150-600 million.

5. Free student loans for critical skill tertiary courses. This basically means teaching and healthcare. We don't really need more arts degrees and accounts and law degrees so no changes.

6. Paid apprenticeships for trades. Basically you get minimum wage at least and a top up equivalent to the unemployment benefit. Straight outta school you're on the median wage basically. Could consider an employer subsidy. You also get priority on social housing.

7. Government subsidies on food banks. Cheap rent helps but if you're really struggling have some groceries. Housing and food are priorities for my dictatorship. Comparatively cheap.

8. Carrot and stick approach for the anti social. The right wants bootcamps I'm leaning more towards enforced rehab, health camps that we used to have things like that. Failure to comply stricter measures eg prison or whatever can be used. Overlaps with crime and punishment reform. The state will feed, house and clothe you if required. You may not get the choice where to live however.

9. Expand universal healthcare to include dental.

10. Investment in infrastructure. Specifically clean electrity.

Those are the big ones anyway. Pay more tax get more services.
 

schlaufuchs

Break My Heart
Joined
Jun 9, 2008
Messages
16,860
Location
Seattle, WA
>self-identifies as a social democrat
>rattles off a bunch of neoliberal policies

lmao
 
Joined
Jan 24, 2022
Messages
695
Except for #8, I'm impressed. The US could use a lot of those provisions. In the US you might get elected. In Europe, you'd be condemned as a fascist or something.
 

Broken_Erika

Nothing
Joined
Dec 12, 2004
Messages
10,306
Location
Glasgnopolis, Grottland
Pfffft! You need realistic goals, like these
  • Repealing the law of gravity[26][27]
  • Providing higher education by building taller schools[18][28]
  • Instituting English, French and illiteracy as Canada's three official languages[18]
  • Tearing down the Rocky Mountains so that Albertans could see the Pacific sunset[27]
  • Eliminating unemployment by abolishing Statistics Canada, thereby eliminating the bureaucrats that measure unemployment.[29]
  • Making Montreal the Venice of North America by damming the St. Lawrence River[30]
  • Abolishing the environment because it's too hard to keep clean and it takes up so much space[18]
  • Annexing the United States, which would take its place as the third territory in Canada's backyard (after the Yukon and the Northwest Territories—Nunavut did not yet exist), in order to eliminate foreign control of Canada's natural resources[31]
  • Ending crime by abolishing all laws[32]
  • To provide more parking in the Maritimes by paving the Bay of Fundy, and to create the world's largest parking by paving the province of Manitoba[18][27]
  • Turning Montreal's Saint Catherine Street into the world's longest bowling alley[18]
  • Amending Canada's Freedom of Information Act: "Nothing is free anymore; Canadians should have to pay for their information".[33]
  • Making the Canadian climate more temperate by tapping into the natural resource of hot air in Ottawa.[33]
  • Storing nuclear waste in the Senate: "After all, we've been storing political waste there for years".[33]
  • Adopting the British system of driving on the left; this was to be gradually phased in over five years with large trucks and tractors first, then buses, eventually including small cars, and bicycles and wheelchairs last.[20]
  • Selling the Senate of Canada at an antique auction in California[27][31]
  • Putting the national debt on Visa[34]
  • Declaring war on Belgium because a Belgian cartoon character, Tintin, killed a rhinoceros in one of the cartoons[28][35]
  • Offering to call off the proposed Belgium-Canada war if Belgium delivered a case of mussels and a case of Belgian beer to Rhinoceros "Hindquarters" in Montreal (the Belgian Embassy in Ottawa did, in fact, do this)[28][35]
  • Painting Canada's coastal sea limits in watercolour so that Canadian fish would know where they were at all times[30]
  • Banning guns and butter, since both kill[30]
  • Banning lousy Canadian winters[18]
  • Building a bridge spanning the country, from Vancouver Island to Newfoundland.[36]
  • Making the Trans-Canada Highway one way only.[36]
  • Changing Canada's currency to bubble gum, so it could be inflated or deflated at will.[37]
  • Donating a free rhinoceros to every aspiring artist in Canada[31]
  • Counting the Thousand Islands to see if the Americans have stolen any[16]
  • Knocking down the Rocky Mountains and building giant bicycle paths sloping downhill in both directions, so Canadians could coast from coast to coast.[38]
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rhinoceros_Party
 
Joined
Jan 24, 2022
Messages
695
Pfffft! You need realistic goals, like these
  • Repealing the law of gravity[26][27]
  • Providing higher education by building taller schools[18][28]
  • Instituting English, French and illiteracy as Canada's three official languages[18]
  • Tearing down the Rocky Mountains so that Albertans could see the Pacific sunset[27]
  • Eliminating unemployment by abolishing Statistics Canada, thereby eliminating the bureaucrats that measure unemployment.[29]
  • Making Montreal the Venice of North America by damming the St. Lawrence River[30]
  • Abolishing the environment because it's too hard to keep clean and it takes up so much space[18]
  • Annexing the United States, which would take its place as the third territory in Canada's backyard (after the Yukon and the Northwest Territories—Nunavut did not yet exist), in order to eliminate foreign control of Canada's natural resources[31]
  • Ending crime by abolishing all laws[32]
  • To provide more parking in the Maritimes by paving the Bay of Fundy, and to create the world's largest parking by paving the province of Manitoba[18][27]
  • Turning Montreal's Saint Catherine Street into the world's longest bowling alley[18]
  • Amending Canada's Freedom of Information Act: "Nothing is free anymore; Canadians should have to pay for their information".[33]
  • Making the Canadian climate more temperate by tapping into the natural resource of hot air in Ottawa.[33]
  • Storing nuclear waste in the Senate: "After all, we've been storing political waste there for years".[33]
  • Adopting the British system of driving on the left; this was to be gradually phased in over five years with large trucks and tractors first, then buses, eventually including small cars, and bicycles and wheelchairs last.[20]
  • Selling the Senate of Canada at an antique auction in California[27][31]
  • Putting the national debt on Visa[34]
  • Declaring war on Belgium because a Belgian cartoon character, Tintin, killed a rhinoceros in one of the cartoons[28][35]
  • Offering to call off the proposed Belgium-Canada war if Belgium delivered a case of mussels and a case of Belgian beer to Rhinoceros "Hindquarters" in Montreal (the Belgian Embassy in Ottawa did, in fact, do this)[28][35]
  • Painting Canada's coastal sea limits in watercolour so that Canadian fish would know where they were at all times[30]
  • Banning guns and butter, since both kill[30]
  • Banning lousy Canadian winters[18]
  • Building a bridge spanning the country, from Vancouver Island to Newfoundland.[36]
  • Making the Trans-Canada Highway one way only.[36]
  • Changing Canada's currency to bubble gum, so it could be inflated or deflated at will.[37]
  • Donating a free rhinoceros to every aspiring artist in Canada[31]
  • Counting the Thousand Islands to see if the Americans have stolen any[16]
  • Knocking down the Rocky Mountains and building giant bicycle paths sloping downhill in both directions, so Canadians could coast from coast to coast.[38]
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rhinoceros_Party
How many times are you gonna knock down the Rocky Mountains?

Lolz
 

Angst

Rambling and inconsistent
Joined
Mar 3, 2007
Messages
14,672
Location
A Silver Mt. Zion
now, this is a good question.
beyond appearance and disposition (i'm neither shrewd, unscrupulous, or charismatic enough to win) -
- my core issue is rapidly promoting green policy, which simply doesn't have voter support
- specifically because what is needed to invest (beyond sane & profitable initiatives already readily available in green tech; it's more feasible at this point) requires some kind of immediately heavy intrusion upon consumption patterns
- many things will be more expensive, many things will be less expensive, just by virtue of adjusting subsidies
- also my ideal policies beyond energy policy (again, energy is affordable & more feasible than oil) need money which requires restructuring a lot of taxation, benefits

all this may change with change of voter disposition (or with necessity, as everything starts burning in a few decades, policy & life standards will change anyways), but for now, as we see in green party support, not popular enough to get elected.
 

TheMeInTeam

If A implies B...
Joined
Jan 26, 2008
Messages
27,787
Here's a good one for CFC. Are you self aware enough that you realize you couldn't win a fair and free election. Assume you're a public figure with some degree of support from a major political party.
we don't know, some here might be able to win a free/fair election. especially if we're not talking about a high office. i know i'm not one of them, i would need it to be unfair to win. i think politics should be about policy, and am aware that generally politics is not about policy. i actively disrespect that fact, and that would probably rule me out of elected offices.

being the kind of person who is both willing and able to make those connections and tug on them just right to get their backing is a non-trivial part of the difficulty in winning an election. it's not easy to do that. i get that for free? how did that happen? it's technically more likely than waking up in an isekai anime tomorrow, but only just barely. even if that somehow happened, maintaining party support without the requisite skill to get it in the first place isn't easy either, i'd estimate.

i am not confident enough in my capabilities to deceive large numbers of people in person at scale to even get to the assumed starting point, but if you magicked up the scenario i wonder in which way, specifically, i'd screw it up. probably, if they backed me for some reason despite my distaste, i would get written off after insisting that people answer the question they're asked in debate or saying something about my own policy preferences that doesn't have sufficiently broad appeal to fly. i have a penchant for the government doing much, much less than it does right now after all.

if you put me in an area that is extremely partisan in "my party's" favor, i could manage saying nothing and "winning" that way though. since that isn't free and fair (instead gerrymandered to heck), it's not a violation of the opening post, score!

1. Taxes.
note that raising taxes to put people in houses doesn't have a clear path to resulting in more productivity at anywhere near the scale of the investment, so the combination will probably trash the economy in question. at some point, raising taxes lowers government revenue, don't know where where nz is on that curve. the exact shape/break point of that curve is debated, but if you think about the implications of 100% tax rate on everyone, it becomes obvious that at some point before that you're going to lose people or tracked income.

"free student loans" part is really just subsidizing certain fields with extra steps. if you want the government to keep its control on those fields, it makes sense. i don't like it, but it does what it's intended (unlike the above).

#8 is a recipe for violence, at scale. the kind where people start shooting. when you think about what would have to be done to implement that, it's straight up 1984 stuff. "if you don't agree with us, we can call you anti-social and then you go to camps or you go to prison". a country would definitely get "crime and punishment" reform if it tried this. the kind that happens at rifle point.

"clean electricity" isn't as "clean" as it sounds. if you want to invest in that neighborhood and meaningfully improve impact on environment, invest in making energy production and consumption more efficient (don't know if nz is burning lots of coal, but get away from that too if so since iirc it kills the most people per capita and is pretty much the opposite of green).
 

danjuno

Can the circle be unbroken?
Joined
Feb 19, 2010
Messages
2,241
Location
WV
To provide more parking in the Maritimes by paving the Bay of Fundy, and to create the world's largest parking by paving the province of Manitoba[18][27]
Lost me at the car-centric infrastructure, sorry.

Serious answer: As a leftist, I would be subject to an "accident" by my government if I got anywhere near winning a fair and free election with my views.
 

Broken_Erika

Nothing
Joined
Dec 12, 2004
Messages
10,306
Location
Glasgnopolis, Grottland

danjuno

Can the circle be unbroken?
Joined
Feb 19, 2010
Messages
2,241
Location
WV
Thank heavens!
 

Zardnaar

Deity
Joined
Nov 16, 2003
Messages
17,600
Location
Dunedin, New Zealand
we don't know, some here might be able to win a free/fair election. especially if we're not talking about a high office. i know i'm not one of them, i would need it to be unfair to win. i think politics should be about policy, and am aware that generally politics is not about policy. i actively disrespect that fact, and that would probably rule me out of elected offices.

being the kind of person who is both willing and able to make those connections and tug on them just right to get their backing is a non-trivial part of the difficulty in winning an election. it's not easy to do that. i get that for free? how did that happen? it's technically more likely than waking up in an isekai anime tomorrow, but only just barely. even if that somehow happened, maintaining party support without the requisite skill to get it in the first place isn't easy either, i'd estimate.

i am not confident enough in my capabilities to deceive large numbers of people in person at scale to even get to the assumed starting point, but if you magicked up the scenario i wonder in which way, specifically, i'd screw it up. probably, if they backed me for some reason despite my distaste, i would get written off after insisting that people answer the question they're asked in debate or saying something about my own policy preferences that doesn't have sufficiently broad appeal to fly. i have a penchant for the government doing much, much less than it does right now after all.

if you put me in an area that is extremely partisan in "my party's" favor, i could manage saying nothing and "winning" that way though. since that isn't free and fair (instead gerrymandered to heck), it's not a violation of the opening post, score!


note that raising taxes to put people in houses doesn't have a clear path to resulting in more productivity at anywhere near the scale of the investment, so the combination will probably trash the economy in question. at some point, raising taxes lowers government revenue, don't know where where nz is on that curve. the exact shape/break point of that curve is debated, but if you think about the implications of 100% tax rate on everyone, it becomes obvious that at some point before that you're going to lose people or tracked income.

"free student loans" part is really just subsidizing certain fields with extra steps. if you want the government to keep its control on those fields, it makes sense. i don't like it, but it does what it's intended (unlike the above).

#8 is a recipe for violence, at scale. the kind where people start shooting. when you think about what would have to be done to implement that, it's straight up 1984 stuff. "if you don't agree with us, we can call you anti-social and then you go to camps or you go to prison". a country would definitely get "crime and punishment" reform if it tried this. the kind that happens at rifle point.

"clean electricity" isn't as "clean" as it sounds. if you want to invest in that neighborhood and meaningfully improve impact on environment, invest in making energy production and consumption more efficient (don't know if nz is burning lots of coal, but get away from that too if so since iirc it kills the most people per capita and is pretty much the opposite of green).

We burn very little coal and have one of the highest rated if renewable generation in the world.

USA has summer camp we kind of had some similar except they were health camps. Basically if you were under or over nourished you would get sent to one. Exercise, fresh air, healthy food.

We have geothermal power and relatively abundant hydro power.

They're looking at clean hydrogen fuel essentially using clean electricity to create hydrogen fuel.
 
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