Why play vanilla?

[gironha]

I have been playing Colonization. I was wondering if a person has Warlords and BTS is there any reason to play the original Civ IV?

If it is because there are different mods and they are nice, just tell me that.

Another way to ask this is what does Civ IV have that Warlords and BTS don't have?

Please also answer the same question for Warlords vs. BTS.

Thanks.

 

[raxid]

I have been playing Colonization. I was wondering if a person has Warlords and BTS is there any reason to play the original Civ IV?

If it is because there are different mods and they are nice, just tell me that?

Another way to ask this is what does Civ IV have that Warlords and BTS don't have.

Please also answer the same question for Warlords vs. BTS.

Thanks.

honestly anything vanilla has that bts doesn't is heavily outweighed by what warlords and BTS have. having said that, i played vanilla quite a bit but can't come up with any features that make it reasonable to play vanilla. of course i suppose you could be greatly offended that your favorite leader had his traits changed, but then you could just mod it back to how it was i suppose...

IIRC i believe deity was a lot harder in vanilla than BTS? or maybe that was harder in warlords than BTS... can't remember now

 

[Windsor]

Vanilla is faster than BTS.

 

[cardgame]

BTS all the way

 

[eireksten]

Vanilla is simpler than BtS. More game mechanics isn't necessarily always what you want.

 

[Willem]

Another way to ask this is what does Civ IV have that Warlords and BTS don't have.

The only thing that vanilla has that BtS doesn't is the scenarios.

Please also answer the same question for Warlords vs. BTS.

The same thing. BtS is the full game which includes everything from vanilla and Warlords, plus adds a bunch more of it's own. So there's really no reason to play either of the first two versions. Unless of course your intention is to play the scenarios.

 

[Tristan_C]

The same thing. BtS is the full game which includes everything from vanilla and Warlords, plus adds a bunch more of it's own. So there's really no reason to play either of the first two versions. Unless of course your intention is to play the scenarios.

Such as the barb scenario in warlords. I would recommend to anyone who wants to learn pure combat mechanics and optimal stack sizes for capping cities and pillaging--even though siege units are handled a bit differently in BTS.

 

[NBAfan]

Vanilla is faster than BTS.

Actually BtS runs much faster then Vanilla because of better code.

 

[Kid R]

i suppose you could be greatly offended that your favorite leader had his traits changed, but then you could just mod it back to how it was i suppose...

Lots of things like that were tweaked for "balance". I do miss vanilla cossacks though.

IIRC i believe deity was a lot harder in vanilla than BTS? or maybe that was harder in warlords than BTS... can't remember now

As I remember the AI was made less aggressive by default which makes it a bit easier. There is an aggressive AI option though.

All things considered I must say while BTS is a much bigger package and I don't regret buying it, I still feel it's not that much of an improvement gameplay wise over Vanilla. You could argue overcomplicated, especially as the OP is coming from Colonization. If you can get vanilla cheaper than the complete package go for it and see if you like it. I would think even the combo is down to bargain bin prices now though.

Also virtually everyone on these boards is playing BTS so in terms of getting tips and joining in the numerous playalong games vanilla will be a handicap.

 

[Willem]

Also virtually everyone on these boards is playing BTS so in terms of getting tips and joining in the numerous playalong games vanilla will be a handicap.

Not to mention that most of the good mods are designed with BtS in mind. In particular is the BUG mod, which is a must have as far as I'm concerned.

 

[Kid R]

Good point. If I had to choose one or the other I would rather play vanilla with BUG than BTS without it.

 

[ZeroM]

BTS doesn't have Nimoy.

 

[Still_Asleep]

Good point. If I had to choose one or the other I would rather play vanilla with BUG than BTS without it.

I think you wouldnt

Warlords was a rather poor expansion as far as the core game is concerned:

+ Warlords
+ Vassal States
+ New Leaders/traits

But BTS:

+ New world wonders, including the apostolic palace -->
+ New win condition
+ New national wonders (moai, national park)
+ New techs that filled some holes in the techtree (aesthetics, military tradition, laser, superconductors, advanced flight)
+ New units: cuirassier, trebuchet, paratrooper, anti-tank and a lot of modern era stuff
+ New buildings: levee, security bureau, public transport, intelligence agency
+ New graphics (all those ethnic early game units)
+ New espionage system (although I am still not convinced)
+ Corporations!
+ Random Events
+ Great Spy
+ Better golden age mechanics
+ tons of needed balance changes
+ new leaders/traits
...and many more


---> Once you are used to BTS, you cannot enjoy Vanilla any more.

 

[Kid R]

Hehe - maybe! It's close though.

The biggest thing for me was all the new scenarios and stuff in BTS - I really enjoyed all that. Some of the new map generators are fun too, although I can't remember where they came from - possibly with BUG anyway! Fractal seems to be the best and I think that was new with BTS.

As for the expansions to the core game mechanics you listed, some of them I enjoy like the larger cast of leaderhead characters, but most for me were not-entirely-welcome complications to an already complicated game. I do realize a lot of players like all the extra detail though - you just have to look at the number of huge mods, like multiplying the size of the tech tree by a factor of five or whatever, and the calls for Civ 5 to be something along those lines too.

 

[Willem]

BTS doesn't have Nimoy.

Hardly a selling point for me, I deleted all those voice clips. I get blessed silence now after I research a tech.

 

[Smokey McDope]

Yeah after getting over my favorite leaders traits being nerfed I've come to love the new golden ages, units, ub's and most of all the spy/espionage mechanics.

 

[Lyoncet]

Hardly a selling point for me, I deleted all those voice clips. I get blessed silence now after I research a tech.

Isn't there some way to turn that off in-game without deleting the sound clips? I thought I saw TMIT do it in one of his LPs.

Anyways, what does Vanilla have that the expansions don't? Good phalanxes.

 

[gironha]

Thank you everyone, that was just what I wanted. Hopefully this helps someone else as well.

 

[Julian Delphiki]

I think you wouldnt

Warlords was a rather poor expansion as far as the core game is concerned:

+ Warlords
+ Vassal States
+ New Leaders/traits

But BTS:

+ New world wonders, including the apostolic palace -->
+ New win condition
+ New national wonders (moai, national park)
+ New techs that filled some holes in the techtree (aesthetics, military tradition, laser, superconductors, advanced flight)
+ New units: cuirassier, trebuchet, paratrooper, anti-tank and a lot of modern era stuff
+ New buildings: levee, security bureau, public transport, intelligence agency
+ New graphics (all those ethnic early game units)
+ New espionage system (although I am still not convinced)
+ Corporations!
+ Random Events
+ Great Spy
+ Better golden age mechanics
+ tons of needed balance changes
+ new leaders/traits
...and many more


---> Once you are used to BTS, you cannot enjoy Vanilla any more.

No new traits for BtS (unless you meant combos) , Trebuchet came on warlords + mil trad was already on Vanilla.

 

[Still_Asleep]

No new traits for BtS (unless you meant combos) , Trebuchet came on warlords + mil trad was already on Vanilla.

Yes, I mixed up the 2 addons, the new traits and trebuchet came with warlords. And I meant military science, not tradition.

Still, BTS was by far the bigger (and imo better) expansion, but why would you play warlords without BTS anyway