Why Should Portugal/Brazil be on the game

[Zenon_pt]

- Do you agree with this: Should Portugal/Brazil be on this game?

- What do you know about Brazilian Independence? Does this "Grito do Ipiranga", tells you something?

- Give reasons if you said ye or ney.

- Ever heard about Pedro Alvares Cabral?

- Did you know Brazil was first an Empire after his declaration of independence, and much later was a Republic.

 

[johny smith]

Well I think Portugal obviously was important, but you can say that about other kingdoms as well. Portugal was a very important power though. But that is not the main thing to this thread that makes we want to vote yes.

The main reason I voted yes was I would like to see some other scenarios for different nations to obtain independence. Right now I think only the US is made by declaring independence. I would like to see different independence movements that are unique but that not is colonization. But I think it should be one thing added anyway. Like say Mexico, Gran Columbia, Brazil, or Hati (would be nice if they would include slavery).

Well anyway I wish it would just be more accurate is all. I would like to play the Natives as well. Like the Iroquois Confederacy, or how about the Aztecs so that it relates to Mexican independence later in some way. I know crazy thoughts.

 

[sangeli]

Portugal has to be in the game for it to be any good. I mean, if their not going to include portugal, how many countries could there possibly be? England, Spain, France, and Portugal were the only real colonizers in the new world. Netherlands could be considered colonizers, but that would be a stretch. And if you really want to stretch you could include Sweden (who could forget New Sweden). So, discounting an Africa/world scenario, thats only 4 shooins and 2 stretches, not very many.

 

[johny smith]

When I say others I think Portugal should be added first above others. But here is a reference I mean if other time periods would come into play.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_colonization_of_the_Americas

Russia is the next I am thinking of but it would of start at a later period. So if you wanted to start with all of the possibly of ones there is a bigger list, but I would think that the lesser ones should start with a late time disadvantage just as if you were allowed to play the natives should have a disadvantage.

Either way what would be good I think would to be have events that are unique to what country you began colonizing with and where on a map you colonize first so you could have a different history not just the generic "Kiss the Pinky Ring" messages popping up.

 

[Gaius Octavius]

Portugal has to be in the game for it to be any good.

I think the game will still be good even without them.

That said, it would be even better with them. Brazil is a pretty significant chunk of South America and adding another major European power would make things more interesting, particularly if they've added a new "conquest" victory option where you eliminate all your Old World rivals.

 

[Greybriar]

Although I feel the four civilizations that were in the original Colonization would suffice for the upcoming release, like Gaius Octavius posted: "it would be even better with them" if a map of South America is included with the game.

 

[zyphyr]

I just wish to echo the sentiments of Gaius and Greybriar. Good without them, better with.

 

[onedreamer]

Portugal (why Brazil ??) should be in by logical reasoning, but since we aren't making the game we can't really know. A game designer has to take into consideration a bit more than what has been posted in the thread.

 

[Roland Johansen]

Yes, they should be in as they were hugely influential during the beginning stages of the age of exploration and colonisation.

 

[mboza]

The reason Portugal were not in the original was apparently that the game engine could only support 4 european factions. Hence the inclusion of an event that merged the smallest faction into another AI, which occured as soon as you could declare independence, so that the King's Expeditionary Force could occupy the 4th slot.

Evidently Portugal were fifth on the list.

 

[Shurdus]

I honestly could couldn't care less if they are included or not. Apparently there are guys out there who want it - and won't shut up about it - so I hope for those players that they will be included, but for me it is not an issue. I voted no.

 

[TheDS]

I would like them in only for the sake of variety, not because they "deserve" to be in, because they don't. All the hoohah and the venom and crap, though, is a major turn-off for their cause. They act like they owned more of the New World than Spain did. Yeah, like I really wanna support a monkey that throws excriment at everyone it possibly can.

 

[gusi]

Yes Portugal should be in it.
Holland should too. They founded NY and many upstate towns along the river. The dutch at St Eustatius were also the first nation to recognize the USA. They also conquered much of the Brazilian coastline and ran it for two generations.

Not sure who that guy is. But IIRC The king of Portugal send his son to Brazil as viceroy just before Portugal was overrun by Napoleon. His instructions to him were to keep Brazil in the family and declare Independence with himself as King/Emperor if necessary and not loose Brazil to the French or Bourbons. Sometime after that Independence was declared. Not sure if Angola was included as it was administrated from Rio rather than Lisbon at the time (due to the prevailing winds and currents).

 

[Rex rgis of Ter]

AFAIK Colonization focuses on North America, thus portugal is out, with only small and insignifigant colonies. The four powers in the game are in there because of their large peice of North America.

England- Eastern America, Canada, and Oregon
France- Louisiana Territory
Spain- Almost all America east of Louisiana Territory and Centeral America
Dutch- Large colonies throughout Carribean and some in North East America
Portugese- None that I know of (any ideas?)

So if we were to go based on North America, Portugal is out.

 

[Seleukos Helios]

I've played the original Colonization (still do from time to time), and I always thought that the greatest thing missing from that game was Portugal. Just look at this map of Portuguese colonies and you'll understand why:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Portugal_Império_total.png

Also, while Spanish colonies declared independence as a multitude of small to medium sized nations, Portuguese colonies in the New World achieved independence as a unified country - Brazil, the largest country in South America. In a game about colonies and their revolutions, I consider that quite significant, as opposed to the Dutch colonies for instance.

I considered that omission to be due to technical constraints, which mbosa's post seems to verify, but there is no excuse for it now.

Also, Sid Meyer's Colonization focused on both North and South America (remember the Incas?). The Dutch, although significant merchants and colonizers, weren't even an independent nation until the mid 17th century, and their most important colonies were in Indonesia.

 

[r_rolo1]

If it is confirmed that Portugal is out of Col, first thing I'll do is to mod Col to include Portugal

@gusi

You're not that far from the truth.... but what happened is that all the Royal family fled to Brazil in front of Nappy's armies and when a uprising in Portugal demanded the comeback of the Royal family some years later, the heir of the throne decided to stay in Brazil and decided to declare indenpendence some time later.

 

[C~G]

Rises the question...

Expansion pack?

 

[Tullaris]

I'm against Portugal being included in the game.


Because I study history mainly. I'm going to give you three reasons.

1) Yes Brazil is an important country now, but at the time covered, only the coast was colonized. The back land was jungle filled with indians.

2) Portugal was united under the Spanish crown from 1580-1640.

3) When Portugal regained independence in 1640 is was a weak and almost broke country. It had very small fleet. It was in no position at all to challenge the big powers Holland, England, France and Spain for the new world.

Especially the third point I value heavily. Portugal conquering vast parts of the Americas? Unlikely, extremely unlikely. They could barely hold on to their only possesion Brazil.

The Spanish were the biggest force in the 16th century. The Dutch had arguably the strongest navy in the world for most of the 17th century, additionally they dominated world trade. The English overtook that position in the 18th century. The French were always a power of importance during those days. Portugal? Yes they did well for themselves establishing a colony in Brazil. But they were never a big power in Europe.

Ofcourse you can look at Brazil today and observe that they are a large country and that Portugal must have been important. But this is historically incorrect. Brazil only became what it is today after their independence. For 1500-1800 this is irrelevant.

 

[Mad Hab]

I'm against Portugal being included in the game.

Because I study history mainly. I'm going to give you three reasons(...)

Something for your history classes, then: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Colonial_Brazil

Pay attention to the section "The gold cycle (18th century)". If you look at a map, you will realize Minas Gerais are not at all located on the coast...

Cheers,

Mad Hab

 

[cephalo]

2) Portugal was united under the Spanish crown from 1580-1640.

3) When Portugal regained independence in 1640 is was a weak and almost broke country. It had very small fleet. It was in no position at all to challenge the big powers Holland, England, France and Spain for the new world.

These points actually do have some very large and possibly unpleasant gameplay consequences. Not only do you have european powers merging, but also dividing. Certainly you can work out a system that causes powers to merge, and also to decide who gets what after a split, but that's alot of development time for what can only ever amount to a distraction from the main game flow.

Another option is just to pretend those things didn't happen and include Portugal as a separate power. That would probably be fine actually.