Why so much unhappiness for the Freedom ideology?

[AlextheGr8]

I adopted freedom, and my unhappiness is huge. I looked at the unhappiness listing and there is 41 unhappiness from public opinion (A desire for a new ideology)

Why is it so high? I remember it being just as high when I adopted order in a previous game. Shouldn't freedom be the lowest unhappiness?

 

[Timally]

I adopted freedom, and my unhappiness is huge. I looked at the unhappiness listing and there is 41 unhappiness from public opinion (A desire for a new ideology)

Why is it so high? I remember it being just as high when I adopted order in a previous game. Shouldn't freedom be the lowest unhappiness?

Depands what other civs have taken. If you are the only freedom and the rest are order then you will suffer worse unhappiness

 

[CornPlanter]

In my opinion unhappiness should be lower. In my last game I suddenly went from +1 to -60 in one turn, it's just ridiculous. Barbarians spawn next to the capital, units get slaughtered in war, all in one turn before you have a chance to do anything.

 

[Yrrebnot]

You should check who is influential on you and what ideology they have before choosing one.
its not freedom causing unhappiness per se its that another ideology is stronger which is causing unhappiness, this will also let you change ideologies. (the unhappiness)

 

[Knut_Are_M]

you need to produse more culture. Easiest way to produse culture are religios buildings, Liberty opener, military caste in honor. This will give you 1+2+4 culture per city in the early game. add a wide empire and you will get alot of culture.
Now save Your writers untill you produse at least 100 culture a turn and burn them in 1 go.
Do not create great writer Works, this is like the Great scientist only for culture.
Get them early and get the % bonuses for them. Get a high base culture and this problem With massive unhappiness will og away.
And capture cities With alot of Wonders/great works.

Similar for great artists use them for golden ages 6 turns before you burn Your great writers.

You can safely avoid building ampfiteaters/opera houses/museums untill you can slot them With captured great Works.

 

[Mesix]

Culture is your defense and Tourism is your offense. If you generate more Culture then the AI does Tourism, then it should not be much of a problem. If you produce more Tourism than the AI generates Culture, then they will experience unhappiness from your ideology spreading via Tourism. There is a tab in the Tourism overview screen which highlights ideological pressure and its happiness effects.

 

[AlextheGr8]

This is just ridiculous. I find it laughable that just beacuse I'm the only freedom ideology, my citizens would "want" to have an oppressive ideology instead? Cmon now, this is just dumb. I get hit suddenly with -50 or more unhappiness when I am outnumbered. Give me a break! What a horrible design choice. There was not a majority opinion in America that they should turn to Communism like the USSR. This has ruined the game for me.

 

[ellgieff]

This is just ridiculous. I find it laughable that just beacuse I'm the only freedom ideology, my citizens would "want" to have an oppressive ideology instead? Cmon now, this is just dumb. I get hit suddenly with -50 or more unhappiness when I am outnumbered. Give me a break! What a horrible design choice. There was not a majority opinion in America that they should turn to Communism like the USSR. This has ruined the game for me.

Wait, what? If the USSR ideology had won the cold war (Not a Communist country, never was), US citizens would _clearly_ have asked for the same thing that the people of that union had.

Freedom doesn't necessarily bring happiness. And what the USA has isn't Freedom (or democracy).

 

[Thereon]

This is just ridiculous. I find it laughable that just beacuse I'm the only freedom ideology, my citizens would "want" to have an oppressive ideology instead? Cmon now, this is just dumb. I get hit suddenly with -50 or more unhappiness when I am outnumbered. Give me a break! What a horrible design choice. There was not a majority opinion in America that they should turn to Communism like the USSR. This has ruined the game for me.

You'll be surprised how often it has happened in history

 

[steveg700]

The system isn't necessarily broken, it just isn't explained well...or possibly not at all.

It appears that the combined tourism of a given ideology is weighed against the combined culture of those of other ideologies. Could be wrong, just going from the empirical evidence.

This is just ridiculous. I find it laughable that just beacuse I'm the only freedom ideology, my citizens would "want" to have an oppressive ideology instead? Cmon now, this is just dumb. I get hit suddenly with -50 or more unhappiness when I am outnumbered. Give me a break! What a horrible design choice. There was not a majority opinion in America that they should turn to Communism like the USSR. This has ruined the game for me.

Obviously, the ideology doesn't appear oppressive to them. It looks quite attractive because it's sweeping the world. You seem to suffer from the mistaken notion that order and autocracy have to be rammed down the throats of the masses, and that freedom is the only attractive choice.

 

[GoodSarmatian]

The problem is not that you are outnumbered, the problem is that your culture is too low compared to the other civs' tourism. The Order civs are producing so much more awesome art than you that your people think their system is obviously superior and/or your culture is so poor that they can't resist enemy propaganda.
And Order is not necessarily supposed to represent soviet style communism. The ideologies in ciV are supposed to represent multiple -sometimes idealistic- interpretations of 19/20th century ideologies. Think Democratic Socialism instead of Stalin burning orphans for tank fuel.

It appears that the combined tourism of a given ideology is weighed against the combined culture of those of other ideologies. Could be wrong, just going from the empirical evidence.

Speaking only from gameplay experience and without looking at the code, it appears to me that the combined tourism of those civs that have more tourism than you have culture is used to calculate ideological pressure. If you're the only Freedom civ and there are four Order civs that each have slightly less culture/tourism than you, their public opninion will suffer and yours won't be affected even if their combined tourism/culture is higher than yours.

 

[Xichael]

This is just ridiculous. I find it laughable that just beacuse I'm the only freedom ideology, my citizens would "want" to have an oppressive ideology instead? Cmon now, this is just dumb. I get hit suddenly with -50 or more unhappiness when I am outnumbered. Give me a break! What a horrible design choice. There was not a majority opinion in America that they should turn to Communism like the USSR. This has ruined the game for me.

I think it's more that you've been overtaken by their tourism which is telling you how much better their ideology is compared to yours, and if you don't have the culture to back your system up then the people will yearn for the more popular ideology.

When the tourism of an Order civ overtakes your Freedom civ, your citizens are starting to buy the idea of a glorious paradise of the working class. Not that unrealistic at all.

 

[poom3619]

This is just ridiculous. I find it laughable that just beacuse I'm the only freedom ideology, my citizens would "want" to have an oppressive ideology instead? Cmon now, this is just dumb. I get hit suddenly with -50 or more unhappiness when I am outnumbered. Give me a break! What a horrible design choice. There was not a majority opinion in America that they should turn to Communism like the USSR. This has ruined the game for me.

Mmm. You attached to much to a name "Freedom". I actually can imagine being one of your citizen.

# (Order's propaganda advertisement) #
" ...Oh! Look at our glorious factory, mighty wonders and art. Look at what our fellow workers crafted with all of their strength of body and heart. I bet everything you want to wear, want to hear, to see, to watch, to be, is one of ours. Come and join our paradise! #

Me : "Wow! Such a great society they are, I wish we have such a society here"
* Alex adopt the Freedom ideology *
Me : "WTF! It's Red or Death!"

 

[saboteur_]

Do we know in any detail what it takes to combat this unhappiness? Like in terms of culture-to-tourism ratio so you could assess whether you could reasonably expect to combat the opposing ideology or if you should throw in the towel and change?

I'm trying to wrestle out of it by creating great works and artifacts and I've managed to get my tourism above all but one opposing civ, but the screen tells me I'm also getting unhappiness from a civ I already overtook im t/turn. Have they built up a lead that I need to catch up, in addition to just getting a higher yield?

 

[digrosz]

If Freedom really gave less unhapiness than Order or Autocracy... 'MURICA

 

[Gehennas]

This is just ridiculous. I find it laughable that just beacuse I'm the only freedom ideology, my citizens would "want" to have an oppressive ideology instead? Cmon now, this is just dumb.

You will not believe me, but in post-soviet Russia there is a lot of people dreaming about a new Stalin. Even while this country is "following freedom" de jure only.

 

[digrosz]

You will not believe me, but in post-soviet Russia there is a lot of people dreaming about a new Stalin. Even while this country is "following freedom" de jure only.

The new Stalin would have to get past Putin though. Good luck on that lol.

 

[LostJB]

Do we know in any detail what it takes to combat this unhappiness? Like in terms of culture-to-tourism ratio so you could assess whether you could reasonably expect to combat the opposing ideology or if you should throw in the towel and change?

I'm trying to wrestle out of it by creating great works and artifacts and I've managed to get my tourism above all but one opposing civ, but the screen tells me I'm also getting unhappiness from a civ I already overtook im t/turn. Have they built up a lead that I need to catch up, in addition to just getting a higher yield?

Their are six influence teirs: Unknown, Exotic, Familiar, Popular, Influential, and Dominate. To determine the ideological pressure you get from another Civ you subtract your influence on them from their influence on you. For example, if they are Popular in your country, but you're only Exotic in theirs, you'll get two units of ideological pressure. The global ideology also imposes two units. I haven't completely worked out how this pressure turns into unhappiness, but it's pretty severe. Anything more than two units is very hard to deal with.

As I see it you really have three options when in this situation: Change Ideologies, declare war on them (which closes border and trade), or send waves of musicians and you build up your own tourism to meet/exceed theirs.

 

[Louis XXIV]

This is just ridiculous. I find it laughable that just beacuse I'm the only freedom ideology, my citizens would "want" to have an oppressive ideology instead? Cmon now, this is just dumb. I get hit suddenly with -50 or more unhappiness when I am outnumbered. Give me a break! What a horrible design choice. There was not a majority opinion in America that they should turn to Communism like the USSR. This has ruined the game for me.

Tell that to Democratic countries in Europe in the 1920s and 30s. Many countries felt that democracy was an inferior system. They had advocates for Communism, but they also advocated for strongmen and nationalism. Germany was democratic and then pro-autocratic parties were elected with sufficient force as to have Hitler appointed as head of the government.

 

[Iry]

In addition to all of the good advice being offered on this thread, Alex...

If America had been overwhelmed by Russia's amazing communist culture and tourism, you wouldn't be thinking any of the things you are thinking about them right now.