Why so much unhappiness for the Freedom ideology?

adecoy95

Warlord
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Apr 12, 2008
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153
adecoy95, there are tons of different ways for dealing with ideology unhappiness. If you seriously have that much trouble with it, learn to play.

wouldn't be here if i wasn't trying to, feel free to share suggestions tho. most of the ones i see just aren't really working
 

VainoValkea

Emperor
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Jun 18, 2013
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feel free to share suggestions tho.

The problem being

most of the ones i see just dont work tho

that the solutions that work for everyone else don't seem to work for you. I wonder which is more probable: that you have a weird copy of Civ V where ideology unhappiness is really impossible and broken, or that you're just not doing good enough yourself?

I already made these suggestions in another thread. These have worked for the others, I don't see why you can't use them.

- Don't get influenced in the first place (produce more culture and tourism, beware of open borders, shared religion, trade routes)
- As a corollary, get great works and invest on archaeologists
- Take out the offending culture with military force
- Choose the same ideology as the most influential culture (if they get to go first)
- Have your ideology voted as the world ideology
- Get more happiness to nullify the ideological unhappiness
- Switch ideologies to the pressuring one

If you can't get these to work, play on lower difficulty levels until you're familiar with the system.
 

adecoy95

Warlord
Joined
Apr 12, 2008
Messages
153
The problem being



that the solutions that work for everyone else don't seem to work for you. I wonder which is more probable: that you have a weird copy of Civ V where ideology unhappiness is really impossible and broken, or that you're just not doing good enough yourself?

I already made these suggestions in another thread. These have worked for the others, I don't see why you can't use them.

- Don't get influenced in the first place (produce more culture and tourism, beware of open borders, shared religion, trade routes)
- As a corollary, get great works and invest on archaeologists
- Take out the offending culture with military force
- Choose the same ideology as the offending culture (if they get to go first)
- Have your ideology voted as the world ideology
- Get more happiness to nullify the ideological unhappiness
- Switch ideologies to the pressuring one

If you can't get these to work, play on lower difficulty levels until you're familiar with the system.


i am just really stubborn about my ideology, i really enjoy playing with the specialist bonuses that freedom gives, and lately i have been trying to focus on culture and such to try and keep freedom, so by the time i need to use the option to switch, the amount of unhappiness i gain by losing my specialist bonuses pretty much negate any bonus i would have gotten by switching to order... i have managed to somewhat reduce the unhappiness effect (i destroyed france), but its only a stop gap since it just gets worse over time anyways. i have never been able to propose any policies to the world order, and at best i think i have managed 5 votes, so the combined effort of the 5-9 civs in the game that always cluster order, i never have any opportunity to fight it from getting passed

also, the difficulty i play on is already pretty low (prince) and i always get ideologies way before everyone else with factories, i feel like, this part of the game difficulty is out of pace with the rest of it

also, frustratingly, if you have the same amount of influence for your ideology, as someone else is influencing you with another, you gain the unhappiness, its not a stalemate, frustrating!

also, just to address some of your individual points, i went full indiana jones in this game, i grabbed up every site i was able to reach as early as possible, tried to grab as many culture wonders, even went piety to try and get influence from religion as well, anything i could to push my influence outward

i have never sucessfully been able to not get influenced, i dont understand that point at all, 400+ culture nearly 200 tourism wasent enough, i really dont think either of these has anything to do with ideology dissidents anymore
 

dashwinner

Prince
Joined
Dec 5, 2010
Messages
320
I think, the key word is 'heavy investments' here! Agreed, heavy investements should be reward. And they will, even with a slower pressure increase.

The main problem I see is for domination players. Usually, they will not spend overly much in culture (of course it is a very bad idea to ignore it - but they will definitely not 'heavily invest' in it), they might fall back in science due to the new 5%/city-increase, they might have more enemies than friends due to their aggressive approach. And when they finally reach the point to chose their own ideology, the #### hits the fan...

Domination was already heavily hampered by other new game mechanics in BNW. I don't think, we need this stumbling block in addition to all the others.

You do bring up a good point. In the half or dozen completed BNW games so far, the idea of going domination just seems counter-productive, as in it would require a lot more effort and a precise plan since the very beginning of the game. There are a lot of things going against it (which isn't bad, per se, but these factors might be a little too discouraging). Having said that, I have yet to try a pure warmongering civ. What's that Assyria? I should try? but. but. I got things to do... ahh damnit here we go!
 

VainoValkea

Emperor
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Jun 18, 2013
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Location
The Harsh North
The problem: you can't have it all. You can't just play as you like and refuse to adapt.

If you can't keep competitive in the culture game and you get influenced by someone else, you can't ignore CS allies to vote your ideology as the World Ideology, or military aggression to crush cultural threats with, or the option to change your ideology. You have access to multiple areas of the game that allow you to deal with it, and you need to have investments in at least one.

My suggestion would be to play a diplomacy/culture -heavy game. Focus on the cultural side of the tech tree, get the artist guilds up and running in your cities ASAP and try to get some artistic wonder. Education is a pretty good tech to beeline, for the universities. Pick Patronage tree, at least the opener and the Forbidden palace. Get astronomy for caravels, build one or two to explore the world with and then go for the Printing Press. Ta-dah! If you didn't slack around for too long, you founded the World Congress and have a huge advantage in the voting. While at it, try to get a religion if there are good sources of faith available (pantheon faith resources, holy mountain natural wonders or religious City-States).

Use your first propositions to game the WC by gaming the system. Have your religion voted the world religion. Go for a fast unlocking of Freedom ideology and have it voted as the World Ideology - buy a few AI votes if you want to be sure of this working! Start getting CS allies because they're worth votes from industrial era onwards. Eventually you'll be able to outperform the others in CS diplomacy because of arsenal of freedom and treaty organization.
 

adecoy95

Warlord
Joined
Apr 12, 2008
Messages
153
i guess next time in addition to everything else im trying to do, i will also have to try and bribe city states next time.
 

VainoValkea

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Yeah, they're no good left for Alexander and Ramkhamyam (or however his name is spelled). If you play culturally, you'll have lots of free friends anyway because for some reason the culture race quest seems to be among the more common of CS quests.

Also, if you get the tech quest from City-States, you might consider temporarily suspending the education beeline and popping a few cheap earlier, ignored techs to secure a victory!
 

Lochlann

Warlord
Joined
Mar 29, 2002
Messages
273
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Andúnië
i am just really stubborn about my ideology, i really enjoy playing with the specialist bonuses that freedom gives... /snip
In accord with Vaino's points, this is a complaint I'm seeing a lot of lately: "I really really want to do X and I refuse to budge on it, and it's not working, and so something must be broken!" Sometimes, X just doesn't work. In some games--perhaps many games!--you just won't be able to pull off Freedom. Sometimes you have to stop being stubborn and adapt to the game's flow. And that's how it should be.

If you were always able to achieve X in the game, how much fun would that be? There would be no hard choices to be made, no compromises or sacrifices or learning to adapt to different conditions. No need to develop different play styles. Overcoming the obstacles posed by not being able to do X is part of what makes the game--any game--challenging. If you really want to be able to achieve X each and every time, you're always Free to choose the lower difficulty levels.

If the problem is that you are NEVER able to pull off Freedom, no matter what you do, then there's something you need to improve in your gameplay. As others have said, other players are having no problem managing this (necessary hardships and obstacles aside), so the system is clearly not broken.

Autoclave said:
people are asking why would a citizen of a freedom state want order or autocracy. You are looking at the problem from your american/eurpean biased perspective.
Yup, exactly this. In terms of the game, from the point of view of Mary CivCitizen, there is nothing intrinsically superior about Freedom. Of course in real-world terms the qualities of various ideologies can be (and are) debated endlessly, but this is a game, not a simulation. Each ideology must be presented as equal for the game to work. There is no pro-Freedom bias held by your CivCitizens.
 
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