Why were no jets scrambled on 9-11?

[Sims2789]

also, doesn't it look like someone planted bombs at the base of the train center? i think it does. looks just like a demolition.

@Marla_Singer

9-11 was a great excuse to attack Iraq. he got the population scared and then told them that Iraq had ties to al Qaeda and that Saddam was a threat. "All you need to do to control the population is tell them that their security is at risk."

 

[Sims2789]

Originally posted by Perfection
So there was a failure along the communications route, you can't expect the military to work flawlessly 100% of the time, it's impossible. The fact that the military did something boneheaded doesn't mean that they're part of a massive Bush conspiricy, that's just crazy-talk!

so you're saying that it is a coincidence that we wanted to build a pipeline through Afganistan, and then suddenly we invade them after they "attacked" us, and that the military just happened to screw up 4 times on one day(jets were scrambled against the plane that crashed into that field, but 3 hours after it got hijacked. connect the dots. not to mention the Haliburton oil scandal in Iraq(we used 9-11 as a pretext for invading them to).

 

[Perfection]

Originally posted by sims2789
also, doesn't it look like someone planted bombs at the base of the train center? i think it does. looks just like a demolition.

No it looks like a jet crashed into each tower! And it fell from the top, you can clearly see it cascade top bottom, not bottom up!

 

[Sims2789]

i'm talking about when they fell. basically, a jet crashed into an explosive-packed tower(explosives probably at the base).

 

[Perfection]

Originally posted by sims2789
so you're saying that it is a coincidence that we wanted to build a pipeline through Afganistan, and then suddenly we invade them after they "attacked" us, and that the military just happened to screw up 4 times on one day(jets were scrambled against the plane that crashed into that field, but 3 hours after it got hijacked. connect the dots. not to mention the Haliburton Oil Scandal in Iraq(we used 9-11 as a pretext for invading them to).

We have oil interests in just about every mideast country, that's why we meddled there in the first place and got everyone pissed off! And do you honeslty expect that there was a code for exactly what to do before Sept. 11? Of course not! This type of terrorism was never before seen, and so figuring out what to do and the logistics of it was a major pain in the ass! Yes, George Bush gave an oppurtunity to his friends, that's what the Bush's have always done, doesn't mean he pre-planned it.

George Bush is not the best president, but he's not Satan.

 

[Perfection]

Originally posted by sims2789
i'm talking about when they fell. basically, a jet crashed into an explosive-packed tower(explosives probably at the base).

Explosives at the base wouldn't account for the the falling pattern. It fell from the top down, not from the bottom up! Plus you'd have explosive residue at the base, and much more damage to the substructure.

 

[Sims2789]

yeah well Saddam was considering selling his oil based on the Euro, not the dollar. the US Dollar is backed by oil, and if that were to happen, then that might create a chain reaction in the other oil-rich countries. ask any economist and if everyone started selling their oil on the Euro, then the US Dollar would have massive inflation, causing all of Dubya's friends to get extremely less rich very quick.

a. We try to build an oil pipeline through Afganistan, but the Afghan government doesn't let us. we tried to give them $40 million suposidly due to them killing the opium trade in their country.

b. planes hit towers/field in Pennsylvania/pntagon. jets are only scrambled after the one that crashed in Pennsylvania 3 f***ing hours after it got hijacked. there is an airforce base less than 20 miles from the Pentagon.

c. US blames al Qaeda and makes a 20-person suspect list.

d. 10 days later, seven of those 20 were proven to still be alive.

e. the very same day, Rummy and Cheney wanted to make Saddam their scapegoat, but Dubya said that now wasn't the time

f. we invade Afganistan.

g. Dubya starts saying Saddam has links to al Qaeda.

h. Bush and Co. get the country panicked about Saddam. Blair says Saddam can attack Britian in 45 minutes. no such attack ever happened, even when we invaded Iraq.

i. Dubya claims Saddam has so-called "WMDs" which include useless "weapons" such as mustard gas as well as real Wepons of Mass Destruction such as nukes and VX gas.

j. we invade Iraq.

k. Haliburton gets oil contracts in Iraq worth over $1 billion.

 

[Perfection]

Originally posted by sims2789
yeah well Saddam was considering selling his oil based on the Euro, not the dollar. the US Dollar is backed by oil, and if that were to happen, then that might create a chain reaction in the other oil-rich countries. ask any economist and if everyone started selling their oil on the Euro, then the US Dollar would have massive inflation, causing all of Dubya's friends to get extremely less rich very quick.

Source please! And besides Sept 11 had much worse economic impacts then a weak dollar! In fact it weakened the dollar too!

Originally posted by sims2789
a. We try to build an oil pipeline through Afganistan, but the Afghan government doesn't let us. we tried to give them $40 million suposidly due to them killing the opium trade in their country.

Typical trade banter, we have that with every oil rich country

Originally posted by sims2789
b. planes hit towers/field in Pennsylvania/pntagon. jets are only scrambled after the one that crashed in Pennsylvania 3 f***ing hours after it got hijacked. there is an airforce base less than 20 miles from the Pentagon.

Panic, poor logistics, poor planning, miscommunications, slow reaction time, take your pick. Also 3 hours after it got hijacked, it was only known that it was hijacked later on, not the second they hijacked it. It's not like the terrorists went on the radio and said, "Hey america, where going to and smash this into the pentagon!"

Originally posted by sims2789
c. US blames al Qaeda and makes a 20-person suspect list.

d. 10 days later, seven of those 20 were proven to still be alive.

Well, do expect all the hijackers to follow through? It's a suicide mission, people get jitters, also some weren't meant to smash planes into buildings they were providing logisitical support like rides to the airport, food houses and a whole lot of other services!

Originally posted by sims2789
e. the very same day, Rummy and Cheney wanted to make Saddam their scapegoat, but Dubya said that now wasn't the time.

Actually they were pinning it rightfully on Osama, there may have been some speculation but it wasn't rampant!

Originally posted by sims2789
f. we invade Afganistan.

g. Dubya starts saying Saddam has links to al Qaeda.

h. Bush and Co. get the country panicked about Saddam. Blair says Saddam can attack Britian in 45 minutes. no such attack ever happened, even when we invaded Iraq.

After Saddam is being a total ass about the weapons inspectors

Originally posted by sims2789
i. Dubya claims Saddam has so-called "WMDs" which include useless "weapons" such as mustard gas as well as real Wepons of Mass Destruction such as nukes and VX gas.

It was seen in 91 and there was considerable evidence to support it, but the CIA and the administration got overzelous

Originally posted by sims2789
j. we invade Iraq.

k. Haliburton gets oil contracts in Iraq worth over $1 billion.

Yes, and it had former Cheney ties. Just because bush helped his friends doesn't mean he did it at the expense of thousands of lives in a VAST consipiricy theory.


Anyways there is no direct evidence supporting your conspiricy theory.

 

[Sims2789]

even if there were no explosives at the base, that only proves that the conspiritors didn't use explosives.

 

[Sims2789]

Originally posted by Perfection
Source please! And besides Sept 11 had much worse economic impacts then a weak dollar! In fact it weakened the dollar too!
Typical trade banter, we have that with every oil rich country

but not as much as it would have had Saddam created a ripple affect of all oil contries switching to the Euro anyway, just connect the freakin' dots! if the military was panicking, then they are more likely to be ovber catious than run around in circles wabing their arms in the air.

 

[Sims2789]

Euro conversion(looks as if he already did it): http://www.globalpolicy.org/nations/sovereign/dollarindex.htm

 

[Drewcifer]

I believe that defending domestic airspace is the responsibility of the Air Guard (the aviation equivilent to the National Guard) not the Airforce. Although it almost seems like threadjacking to answer the original question.

 

[ShiplordAtvar]

I would like to revise my first statement. 9/11 was a conspiracy among Bush, Cheney, Big Oil, Zionazis, NeoKKKons, the Illuminati, the Tri-Lateral commission, the Bildebergers, the Freemasons, and the Catholic Church, all for the express purpose of killing Muslims and Arabs and stealing their oil, so as to finance their hideous bloodthirsty agenda. Pretty soon now, they're going to come arrest me (under provisions of the ultra-secret Patriot Act III) and throw me into a political prisoner camp. Gimme a sec while I adjust this handy tinfoil hat that I use to keep out the CIA mind-control rays.

Yeah, I know none of those groups will admit to it, but don't you see!!! That just proves their guilt!! Maybe one day you'll wake up and see how your freedoms are being stolen by those dirty RepubliKKKans.

 

[ShiplordAtvar]

And if anybody believes any of that crap that I just wrote, I have a bridge in Brooklyn that you might be interested in buying.

 

[Goober]

Whoo, quite the theories. I think the States just got caught with their pants down, I have serious doubts there was actually a consipiracy. Pre-911, the US wasn't too concerned about terrorism, and wouldn't have been too concerned about there being a potential attack, because the US has hardly ever faced a serious attack like this ever (except when Canadian and British Troops torched the White House in the War of 1812, hehe . . . ).

But my explanation of the US simply being caught unprepared would make sense considering the excellent News Articles provided. Hey, just goes to show what happens when the World's largest SuperPower gets sloppy.

 

[Sims2789]

also, i just heard on LoveLine that the flight attendant from Flight 11(one of the ones that crashed into the trade center) called the police using the in-flight phone! what, did they think she was joking? even so, better safe than sorry.

 

[bigfatron]

Cock-up seems enormously more likely than conspiracy here.

For a start the risk that a US administration would be taking in setting up or even allowing a terrorist strike of this magnitude is so immense it is inconceivable - would you risk being labelled as the most evil president in US history, probably tried and executed in addition, just to start a war in a remote country? Ther ear far less risky ways of aggrandising your friends.

Secondly too many people would need to be involved to engineer an effective cover up.

Thirdly, if it was a conspiracy, any decent conspirator would have made the defence systems work, only slightly late, i.e. shoot down the third airliner. It would have required less interference, ben far less obvious and had no material impact on the outcome.

Finally, while I'm no fan of Bush, to do such a thing he would have to be truly evil, and I really don't think he is a bad person - a bit weak yes, but certainly not evil.

I do think it obvious that major parts of the Bush administration have placed far more importance on furthering their own agendas than on addressing the underlying issues of 9/11, and that leaves a nasty taste in the mouth when three thousand people have died.

I love conspiracy theories, but this one is too far-fetched - Kennedy assassination looks like a viable conspiracy theory to me, this one does not!

 

[vonork]

Originally posted by bigfatron
Secondly too many people would need to be involved to engineer an effective cover up.

Well, it depends on how laborate, it would actually only take one persone sitting at the right spot in the heirarcy to be able to stop or distort information so noone would know about the terrorist plot. To ground jets, ok, that would add a few more... but unless the administration of an country is bult like the internet - with several ways for the information without chook-points there is noo need for a massive conspiracy, only one or a few people.

But then again it may not count as an conspiray.

Now say the Bush administration(the withe-house being innocent) find the men that have maid this, would it be good or bad for the withe-house to make this public?

So even if there was or was not a conspiracy or only human error or bad organisation, to make that public might not be good for the active adminstration cuz that could label them as incompitent.

 

[Perfection]

Originally posted by sims2789
Euro conversion(looks as if he already did it): http://www.globalpolicy.org/nations/sovereign/dollarindex.htm

According to that it happened last november, did Bush use a time maachine to tell himself earlier to destroy the WTC?

Originally posted by vonork Well, it depends on how laborate, it would actually only take one persone sitting at the right spot in the heirarcy to be able to stop or distort information so noone would know about the terrorist plot. To ground jets, ok, that would add a few more... but unless the administration of an country is bult like the internet - with several ways for the information without chook-points there is noo need for a massive conspiracy, only one or a few people.[/url]

Not really because they're going to produce evidence that others are going to see.

 

[Zeekater]

Actually, the fact that Saddam DIDN'T change to the euro proves that he didn't support terrorism. If he had done that, that would have hurt the US a lot more than a few planes.