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Why won't they capitulate ?

Discussion in 'Civ4 - Strategy & Tips' started by Percy, Aug 18, 2007.

  1. Percy

    Percy Cow who laughs

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    Hello all.

    I have a question about capitulation, and the circumstances you need for it to be possible. I'm asking because i've never been able to have an opponent capitulate. I'm talking of capturing 10 cities without razing one, with Modern Armour against Macemen (Yeah, i know, i WILL be moving to Monarch next time, that's not the point =P), and being two tiles away from the last city of this civilization.

    So how does one goes about vassalizing another civ through warmongering?
    Thank you very much for your advice!
     
  2. SickCycle

    SickCycle Prince

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  3. Percy

    Percy Cow who laughs

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    Thank you, i had already read it. It says:

    Based on the description i made of the game, i don't think that Saladin should have kept refusing capitulation.
    Also, i only took this example because it happened in a game i just finished and had the biggest gap in tech, but it really happens to me often that i don't get to vassalize them even though i'm going to take their last city with a SoD.

    Can i get an answer from someone who cares enough to actually read my post, please ? ;)
     
  4. SickCycle

    SickCycle Prince

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    I find it largely depends on the leaders personality, some just won't catipulate for almost anything.

    You really need to have to be ahead in land/power, especially power.

    I also have noticed the best way to get them to catipulate is to take most of there cities and then march on the capital then right after you take the capital leaving them with very few small 1-4 pop cities they will give in.

    8 out of 10 times someone catipulates to me it's only after I have captured all but maybe three cities and even then only after I sack the capital. You have to be quick though because one turn they may offer it and the next it'll be off the table or they will also try and become the vassal of someone else before they catipulate a lot also.

    Maybe your just not powerful enough :) You have to have more then double on all the criteria and even then you have to break them down.

    You could be twice the land and power but not twice the population, I find i often have 12+ cities with 2-7/8 population and the AI will have maybe four with 10-12 pop cities and there population is usually fairly close to mine still, not sure how the math works but it's something I've noticed when having very large empires and having a vassal with only three or four cities and yet his population is breaking or close to 50%.
     
  5. SickCycle

    SickCycle Prince

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    Where exactly in here do you describe your game with Saladin? You mention a scenario where your taking all but one of there cities with modern armor against maces.. Something I highly doubt unless your playing as a Warlord. Which by your knowledge of the game and inability to grasp a simple concept you have already read a full strategy guide on seems likely.

    I'm sorry to say, I don't think you'll be trying monarch anytime soon.

    As I already stated, it depends on the AI and his personality, I'm not positive but I believe his standing with you has an effect but I'm not sure on that.

    I also told you exactly how to catipulate someone, I don't know why you couldn't figure it out on your own?

    Try not leaving the capital for last, take all but a few of his low end cities it may even take leaving him with only one or two level one or two cities and then take his capital as soon as it falls he will either catipulate to you or more likely become a vassal of your enemy bringing him into it. I also find they are quicker to catipulate or more likely to if your not only double there power but also above the rest of the world, if your stronger then them but weaker to most everyone else I find they vassal to an enemy more often and are less likely to become your vassal knowing even tho they're weak.. your still a panzy.

    Also, as you know, you need double land, population, and power.. you can be low on power even if you have a ten modern tanks if they have 50+ maces, you could also try fighting a war of attrition breaking them down to nothing and making there allies turn on them.. But that seems over your head, strategy wise.

    You should really work on your comprehension or take an intelligence test.

    Kid..
    Moderator Action: Flaming - warned.
    Please read the forum rules: http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=422889

    :ar15: [pissed]




    .. I'm sure your smart enough to figure this out but.. Have you tried opening the diplomacy screen? They don't just offer it, but by your reply I wouldn't put it past you, thought I'd just throw it out there.
     
  6. MrWhereItsAt

    MrWhereItsAt Warlord

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    Why'd you have to start insulting? Seems a perfectly legit question and situation to me, quite similar to something I'm up to now. And I'm no cIV noob.

    Percy - I have had leaders simply not capitulate, regardless of them losing 3/4 or more of their land, including all their home continent cities and wonders, where they started smaller than me to begin with. My best guess is that simply some leaders (probably the aggressive ones) will never surrender, as SickCycle says. This happened to me with the Vikings in the game I am playing at present - crushed their Axes and Swords (no Horses) under my Maces and Knights, yet there was no capitulation, even when they had only a size 3 tundra city left.
     
  7. Percy

    Percy Cow who laughs

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    See ? You CAN read ! So why didn't you actually read that part before giving stupid, non-adapted advice, such as "you need to be twice as powerful", while i had already written i was going to take their last city ? I have taken 10 cities, i am going to take their last, but i wouldn't be twice as powerful in all areas ? And you're telling me _I_ am the noob ? Man, you're so funny =)

    Oh, you're right. My bad, i'm sorry. They were not Macemen.

    They were Longbows, and here's the save to prove it. You'll also be able to check that i'm indeed playing at Prince. Now you'll have to apologize and admit you don't have a clue, i'm sorry =/

    I'm sorry to say, you talk a lot of nonsense =/

    Attitude would have an effect, when you have to at least declare war? Oh, that's rich, you rock.

    I could, it didn't work, and so i'm asking to intelligent, knowledgeable people. Ergo, not you, obviously.

    I always take the Capital early, and then leave them only weaker cities, that i take one after the other trying to get a capitulation. Doesn't work.

    Sure, as you will be able to check in the save ;)

    Right, because the "kid" is not the one who insults, doesn't read posts, answers with only a link and no other text, which is not that bad anyway because the text is full of nonsense.
    Or maybe it is, after all.

    Moderator Action: Please just hit the "report post" button.

    I wouldn't put it past you to stop answering to this thread once you've checked the save and seen how deeply mistaken you are.


    Thanks to control740 and MrWhereItsAt who showed their support =)
     
  8. oyzar

    oyzar Have quit civ/forums

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    um he wanted to become my vassal when i opened the game. What message did you get?(hold over the redded out capitulation to read it).
     
  9. Percy

    Percy Cow who laughs

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    Wow, really? Here's what i get:

    Spoiler :


    EDIT: please note that i played much later than this save, i just took this one to show SickCycle that i was indeed using Modern Armours against Medieval units. But even after i took his cities one after the other, he wouldn't capitulate. I ended up razing him and winning a diplomapostolic (^^) victory by voting myself Religious Leader ^^
     
  10. oyzar

    oyzar Have quit civ/forums

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    Well that mesage means that one of the conditions isnt true. In this case it might be that you dont have over double his teritory, though of this i am not certain as you could actually capitulate him in the save you were showing.
     
  11. Percy

    Percy Cow who laughs

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    The screenshot i gave is one i took from the save i gave. I just loaded the save, clicked ok on the few popups, went to see him, and took the screenshot. How come he'll capitulate for you and not for me ? o.O Could you take a screenshot and tell me step-by-step, in case i'm missing something obvious ?
     
  12. oyzar

    oyzar Have quit civ/forums

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    here it is. Maybe because i haven't installed any patches or something?
     

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  13. Percy

    Percy Cow who laughs

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    The only things i installed are Blue Marble (graphics mode, so i don't think it changes that), and Solver's patch (maybe it made capitulation much less likely).

    Does anyone know the reasons of this behaviour ? Is there a "no capitulation" option that i might have checked unnowingly ?
     
  14. oyzar

    oyzar Have quit civ/forums

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    There is a no vasals option. in costume games yes. Solvers patch might also have something to do with it though i find that rather unlikely.
     
  15. moverred

    moverred Warlord

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    Ha, funny stuff. Percy was rude and the dude overreacted. I do find however that the animations are hilarious! And obviously I checked this thread to see what everyone suggested about vassals and the link was uber helpful.
     
  16. Percy

    Percy Cow who laughs

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    I beg your pardon?
    Just giving a link without any explanation, and without bothering reading the original post, which would have been enough to realize that the conditions presented in the link were, in fact, present, is not rude, but asking answers only from people who actually want to spend the time reading is?
    After all, i don't blame people who don't want to spend time on my "problem", i just ask them to refrain from posting only to complain later, if they're not interested in the first place.

    It is uber helpful. The problem is that i read it before and was pretty sure i was in the conditions to vassalize my opponent. Proof is, someone tried and could vassalize him. So i actually need personalized help to find out what's wrong, not just someone throwing a link, and later insults, at my face.
     
  17. SickCycle

    SickCycle Prince

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    Man, I got it rough, those vassals are so needy.. :lol:

    I'll post another one in a hour or so.. I'm hoping to double it, just gotta goto the other continent. Gimme a minute..
     

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  18. Freedom

    Freedom Warlord

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    I don't really see the point of vassalization anyway. If you're that much ahead of them why not just make peace and then take them over whenever you want to? If you force them to capitulate you CAN'T declare war and it just sucks. Last game on Monarch I took over all of Ghandi's cities except a few random ones and vassalized him, and every once in a while Delhi would go into revolt wanting to defect back to him. ugh. And I couldn't do anything about it. The bonuses of vassalization just seem so weak anyway... if you're that much more powerful they're likely incredibly weak or you're incredibly strong and they wouldn't be of any help in a war anyway... Only possible reason I could see is so you can reach that extra little for the domination limit.
     
  19. Percy

    Percy Cow who laughs

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    That's it, Freedom: domination limit and extra points, from what i gatehred.

    Plus, using an option of the game that i should be able to use but cannot for some reason =)
     
  20. slobberinbear

    slobberinbear Ursine Skald

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    I have to say I agree. The constant revolting of two border cities with my new vassal was tiresome, especially after I built up the city's infrastructure with courthouses, happy buildings, etc. and had 20% on the culture slider. What else do they want?

    In my game, I decided to vassalize Toku after a long war in which my stack was depleted, war weariness was causing major problems, and he still had 4 cities and about 20 units. I was worried about falling behind on tech and my production was slipping, so it seemed like a good idea. I should have just conquered him.
     

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