1. We have added a Gift Upgrades feature that allows you to gift an account upgrade to another member, just in time for the holiday season. You can see the gift option when going to the Account Upgrades screen, or on any user profile screen.
    Dismiss Notice

Wich are the best wonders?

Discussion in 'Civ3 - Strategy & Tips' started by AugustoD, Nov 13, 2001.

  1. AugustoD

    AugustoD Chieftain

    Joined:
    Nov 10, 2001
    Messages:
    36
    Location:
    Argentina
    As some of them change in civ III comparted to civ II, wich ones do you think are that ones that you have to build YES OR YES to win? :D
     
  2. DaEezT

    DaEezT Civ, Pizza, Spam, Repeat

    Joined:
    Sep 22, 2001
    Messages:
    1,087
    Location:
    Munich, Germany
    Pyramids are a must build for me. Even more in civ3 since you can rush with population! Communist players should combine this with longlivity :goodjob:

    Sistine Chapel! doubles effect of cathedrals, which means 3 extra ppl content while Bachs Capel just gives 2 ppl.

    UN -> prevent election :o

    cure for cancer + universal suffage = good for democracy at war!

    smith trading company is also good since it pays for 4 buildings(total of 6 gold per turn) in all your cities(just on continent?) which migh save you a lot of money!

    Hover Dam is also one of my favourites.
     
  3. jaguara

    jaguara Chieftain

    Joined:
    Nov 8, 2001
    Messages:
    36
    Location:
    Ottawa, Canada
    Of course, I try to get as many as I can, but...

    Pyramids
    Sistine Chapel AND Bach (Bach only makes 2 instead of three, but you don't need the cathedral in the city for it to take effect - nice for new and conquered cities)
    Sufferage
    Hoover Dam

    Nice to haves :
    Smith
    Library
    Leonardo

    Everything else is just gravy to me.

    One exception is Shakespere's Theatre, which I have never bothered with - I tend to ignore that whole branch of tech, and trade for Democracy later.
     
  4. Sam_Catchem

    Sam_Catchem Chieftain

    Joined:
    Nov 1, 2001
    Messages:
    350
    I like the Great Library. This is just cause I can shoot for Monarchy Republic and get other techs along the way. It isn't a must.

    The Pyramids are really cool..but again not a must. High pop does make your civ be able to expand quicky.

    Pending on what the map is (which I never know cause I play random)..I LOVE the Great Lighthouse. Galleys are useless until you get this. I like to send a few of them out to make contact with distant civs and explore. You can sell the contact and world map too. I also think it is very cool to find a decent little isalnd to plant a 3 or more cities on before anybody else finds it. Rare..but it is pretty cool.

    I also Love The Oracle and the Sistine Chapel. Anything to make your temples and cathedrals a little stronger.

    By far though..the strongest is the UN! If you do not get it...bummer...you abstain and pray. It is the most deadly wonder in the game. I am usually not the polite little civ that wins the UN vote.
     
  5. tol'Sorahn

    tol'Sorahn Chieftain

    Joined:
    Oct 31, 2001
    Messages:
    10
    Maybe it is just me, but the Great Library doesn't seem as useful as in Civ2. The few times I've built it it has given me about 3 technologies that would have taken me just a few turns to learn, and it always got cancelled pretty early. The biggest use for it was the extremely high culture it gave later in the game from building it really early.
     
  6. eMarkM

    eMarkM Chieftain

    Joined:
    Nov 2, 2001
    Messages:
    83
    UN is far and away the most important wonder in the game. Not even a contest. Plan well in advance your strategy to obtain it. Save a Leader explicitly to rush it. No other wonder is capable of making you lose the game outright if it falls into the AI's hands. Many have learned the hard way ignoring this wonder. With it you can filibuster on the vote forever if you like and be as ruthless to other civs w/o having to worry about them voting against you. Without it, you're likely to get screwed in a vote if you haven't totally been kissing AI butt all game, even if you've been dominating otherwise.

    Sistene and Bach are musts at higher levels, but you can do w/o on Regent and lower.

    I think the Great Lib is overrated. I can usually keep pace w/ other civs by trading. Low levels there's no need as you can usually stay ahead in tech and will get nothing from it. Of course, the culture it generates is great. Leo is fine, but only if you have a ton of upgradable units. It's not the powerhouse must have it was in Civ2.

    Pyramids are nice, too. But too much growth can be a killer on higher levels w/ unhappiness so it's a bit double-edged.

    Hoover really helps the green blob problem in the end game.

    e
     
  7. tol'Sorahn

    tol'Sorahn Chieftain

    Joined:
    Oct 31, 2001
    Messages:
    10
    One of my favorite games was where I constructed the colossus, the observitory, and the other science wonder booster, in my capital city that was next to 3 or 4 gold mountains. I went through a golden age (with the Greeks) and the science output was pretty amazing.
     
  8. Giorgicus

    Giorgicus Master and Commander

    Joined:
    Nov 8, 2001
    Messages:
    38
    In Civs I and II, the must haves were: Leonardo's Workshop, Women's Sufferage, and the Hoover Dam. I remember stockpiling a half-dozen caravans (in sleeper mode) in those cities, to "rush" production of those wonders once they were underway.

    I haven't played enough of Civ III yet to render an opinion on this topic, but it seems that the UN is now a must have. They also seem to have toned down the power and/or effect of Leonardo's Workshop. Universal sufferage seems to still be a must-have, since it becomes almost impossible for a republic or democracy to wage a long war without it.

    Here's something that always bothered me about this game: Universal Sufferage should not be a wonder, or at least not an exclusive one. It makes no sense that there can only be one civilization to get this. This is more akin to a scientific/social discovery (like discovering a form of government), the benefits of which should be shared by more than one civilization.
     
  9. Zannhart

    Zannhart Chieftain

    Joined:
    Nov 6, 2001
    Messages:
    62
  10. Suvorov

    Suvorov Chieftain

    Joined:
    Oct 11, 2001
    Messages:
    84
    Yeah, I think UN is wayyyyy too powerful... I think it should be more like the MOO2 system with supreme leader, votes based on population, and if the AIs vote one of their own as supreme leader, you can refuse to recognise it, but all the enemy civs immediately ally and declare war on you.
     
  11. betheballdanny

    betheballdanny Chieftain

    Joined:
    Oct 31, 2001
    Messages:
    57
    Location:
    Chicago, USA
    I think it would be nice if in any given game, any of the wonders can be considered the best wonder (as was the case in tol'Sorahn's game). I think Firaxis has tried to make the game as replayable as possible. If the UN is too powerful, hopefully this will be limited in the patch. Civ2 games seemed to hinge around getting Leo. I wouldn't want Civ3 to hinge around the UN.
     
  12. betheballdanny

    betheballdanny Chieftain

    Joined:
    Oct 31, 2001
    Messages:
    57
    Location:
    Chicago, USA
    That said, I LOVE Wall Street.
     
  13. Fossa

    Fossa Chieftain

    Joined:
    Nov 8, 2001
    Messages:
    27
    Pyramids
    Sun Tzu
    Leonardo
    Universal Suffrage if youre a democracy or republic
    Colosus in your capital is great.
     
  14. DaEezT

    DaEezT Civ, Pizza, Spam, Repeat

    Joined:
    Sep 22, 2001
    Messages:
    1,087
    Location:
    Munich, Germany
    Everyone does but it doesn't count since it's a small wonder so everyone builds it anyway ;) Or am I the only one who builds every small wonder ? ;)
     
  15. hoyatables

    hoyatables Chieftain

    Joined:
    Nov 8, 2001
    Messages:
    38
    Location:
    Arlington, VA
    Colossus (which is why your second city should ALWAYS be a coastal city).
    Copernicus' Observatory
    SETI
    ---->Science city

    Pyramids
    SunTzu
    Hoover Dam
    ---->Three free improvements per city. Can't beat it.

    Great Lighthouse
    Magellan
    ---->Essential if you need to use the seas

    Leonardo - Unit upgrade is invaluable.

    UN - for all the reasons above.

    The others are useful but not necessary. Certainly the Sistine Chapel is a good one, Bach and Shakespeare, too.

    As for small wonders: Well, I think Forbidden palace is a must build. I'm also a big fan of the Military academy. Basically, you shoudl always make your first leader into an army. And then quickly win a battle. This way, you can build the Heroic Epic - more leaders - and military academy - more armies. I like Wall Street, and Adam Smith, but only if I'm going commercial.
     
  16. knowltok

    knowltok Guest

    I'd say that all of the small wonders are important. I generally build all that I can. Sun Tzu's is certaily better than it was in CIVII. The great wall is still useless, and I'd say that shakespere's is even more useless than it was before.
     
  17. betheballdanny

    betheballdanny Chieftain

    Joined:
    Oct 31, 2001
    Messages:
    57
    Location:
    Chicago, USA
    OK. Then, it's definitely my favorite small wonder. ;)
     
  18. ChickinSht

    ChickinSht Small woodland creature

    Joined:
    Nov 14, 2001
    Messages:
    74
    It depends on your play style. Most everyone here bashes Shakespeare's Theatre, but it is infinitely more useful for someone going for a cultural victory than, say, Sun Tzu's. Also, the oracle is awesome for culture! I don't think I've had any other single building produce nearly as much culture....come late game, if you've had it since the begining, that's an easy 1000+, and with a 20000 goal, five percent for one building is pretty sweet.
     
  19. Kev

    Kev Hired Goon

    Joined:
    Feb 23, 2001
    Messages:
    1,895
    Location:
    Ringwood, NJ USA
    Consider the fact that there are some things that any player pretty much must do in a game:

    1. Build a military. With this, Sun Tzu's is a huge wonder to have since veteran units will keep the civ protected better and give an edge for those heading for conquest. The AI won't allow for the 'ol "one warrior in each city" style.

    2. Upgrade that military. Again, Sun Tzu is huge for citites on the same continent. Here as well, Leonardo's comes into play. It will ALWAYS be necessary to upgrade units throughout the game - some units several times (spearmen -> pikemen -> musketmen -> riflemen -> infantry). This holds for catapults, mounted military, ships, etc. Leonardo's can save you BIG cash money.

    3. Build a temple. While in several of my cities I will build cathedrals as well, I find it a must to have temples in every city. And while it's effects go obsolete relatively early, the Oracle can be a huge boost in the beginning if you can build or capture it. To this end, Bach's can replace the Oracle with its effects.

    4. Fight corruption. I know it's a SMALL wonder, but it's probably the one wonder you almost NEED to build as soon as possible. It's likely the one the people have build most with leaders as well. Of course, I'm talking about the Forbidden Palace. Either in a spot on the other end of a home continent or on a secodary continent this "small" wonder can make ALL the difference. Doesn't seem all that small to me.

    5. Fight pollution. Workers can do just so much, and automating them can turn them dumb as trees - even if you just have them set to cleaning. Hoover Dam will give you a great leg-up on this problem.

    6. Stop the AI from winning diplomatically. Gotta build the UN.

    Two final thoughts -

    The Great Library can certainly be forgone on early levels, but at the higher ones it gains a great deal of value. Even with trading/buying, the AI is very savvy and you'll still fall way behind in techs without it - unless you are able to go and TAKE them :)

    The most success I've had in games involves cracking the despotic whip early and rushing bunches of things from temples, to libraries, to military. The Pyramids are great with this strategy as recovery time is much less. However, I'd rather go and capture it rather than spend the shields if I can. Becomes a problem if it gets build on a distant continent - which is why I try to get masonry to my close neighbors ASAP.

    Less useful wonders to me:

    The Great Wall. With 50% effectiveness to walls and obsolete with metallurgy, not high on my list. I rarely build walls anyway as they are only needed up to size 6.

    I'm probably in the minority in this, but I'm not as hot-to-trot for a science city these days. I find that in a democracy, with libraries and universities built (as I try to increase culture), that my time to get techs is around 4 turns with minimal cash going into science. I've heard of people getting to 3 turns, but 4 seems to be a pretty solid threshold. Colossus is nice, but I'm not sure that the Observatory and Newton's are the all-important go-for's they used to be for me. Perhaps if your civ is smaller it can help you to keep pace....

    Depending on the map, Magellan's is also a bit weaker than it used to be. The Lighthouse is nice because it gives the early ships an extra movement while ALSO keep them from sinking. Magellan now only adds one extra movement, and the ships you'll have then will not be in danger of sinking anyway. It's almost a watered-down Lighthouse - though it will not become obsolete. Perhaps on the larger maps with plenty of H2O.

    I'll also forget about Shake's now. With units outside of cities NOT causing unhappiness like in Civ2, there almost seems to be no reason for building it. If you have a city that need's to make 8 unhappy people content, then there is something wrong with that city and it's likely only producing a shield or two per turn anyway. Better to get some improvements like temples, cathedrals, colosseums, etc and make sure it has luxury access.
     
  20. tetley

    tetley Head tea leaf

    Joined:
    Nov 8, 2001
    Messages:
    2,945
    Location:
    Igloovik
    One other thing that's useless about the Great Wall: it triggers a Golden Age for militaristic civs. The next militaristic Wonder is Sun Tzu, which doesn't occur till Middle Ages. I want my civ well-populated, well-roaded, and well-mined before I trigger a Golden, and that's generally true for me in the Middle Ages. Plus, you may want to be Republic when it happens so the bonus doesn't corrupt away.
     

Share This Page