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Will Civ VI use any mechanics from BE?

Discussion in 'Civ6 - General Discussions' started by Amrunril, May 19, 2016.

  1. Amrunril

    Amrunril Emperor

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    While Civ BE suffered from monumental failures of balance, it introduced a wide range of new mechanics to the Civ series. While, some of these mechanics, such as floating cities, are unlikely to appear outside the context of a sci-fi spin off, others seem like they could be viable additions to a mainline civ title, and I’m curious whether any of them will make an appearance in Civ VI. While I’m sure there are others, these are the mechanics that occurred to me as interesting possibilities for inclusion or adaptation in Civ VI:

    Diplomatic Agreements: When Rising Tide was announced, I speculated that the mechanic was an interesting one that probably wouldn’t work in mainline civ because it wouldn’t make sense for leaders to be making such agreements in 4000 BC. On the other hand, a mid game introduction of diplomatic agreements and capital does seem like it would fit with the idea, discussed in the announcement, of increasing diplomatic options as the game progresses. This isn’t to say I think it’s probable that diplomatic capital and agreements will make an appearance in Civ VI- it probably would have merited a more direct mention in the announcement, and if Civ V style religion and tourism are returning, it would make an awful lot of mechanics for a base game- but it is a possibility worth considering.

    Satellites: This is narrower mechanic, meaning that it would be less of a game changing addition, but also that it would be easier to transfer (albeit only for a small portion of the game). The mechanics behind satellites didn’t make a ton of sense from a real world perspective (not all satellites are geosynchronous, and those that are don’t necessarily need to be launched from the area they’ll be orbiting over), but they added a lot of gameplay possibilities and in particular added new options for how to use terrain, which seems to be something Civ VI is focusing heavily on with the addition of districts (and satellites could interact with districts in a variety of ways, just as they interact with city centers). One downside of adding this mechanic would be that it was the stated reason for not including strategic mode in BE, and while I’m not convinced the two have to be mutually exclusive, I’d be very disappointed to make the same trade of in an addition where satellites are available only in the endgame.

    Covert Ops: This is perhaps the BE mechanic I’d be most interested to see in Civ VI. While it was hard to see because of the horrible balance and execution (seriously, who thought it would be a good idea for science stealing to be based entirely on tech cost?), I think that BE’s covert ops system is, in terms of core principles, the best in any civ game I've played. Civ IV’s system had a wealth of options, but far too many of them were frustrating to the target while imperceptible to the attacker. Civ V’s espionage worked well for its intended purposes, but it lacked not only Civ IV’s frustrating options but also options in general. BE, in contrast had attack options that were dramatic yet also provided options for counterplay, and its agents had a wide variety of interesting options. If these options were better balanced (and actually tied to the output of the target city), BE’s system would serve as an excellent foundation for espionage in Civ VI.

    Ultimately, I think that Civ VI already sounds very busy for a vanilla Civ release, and I’d be somewhat surprised to see these mechanics make an appearance. I don’t think the possibility should be entirely discounted though, and I’d be happy to be surprised. I’m curious as to what others think about this. Is there a possibility of these mechanics returning? Are there other BE mechanics that would be a good fit for Civ VI?
     
  2. Westwall

    Westwall Emperor

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    Let's hope not.
     
  3. poom3619

    poom3619 Ping Pang Poom!

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    Besiides off Satellites. Those feature sound good on paper. But if Firaxis want to implement it. Let's hope they do it right.

    Which I reaaally doubt they will do it right.
     
  4. MIS

    MIS Prince

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    Satellites would be great, but it seems a waste to code for something that only starts when the game is basically done.
     
  5. dexters

    dexters Gods & Emperors Supporter

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    I haven't played much of BE and what I've played was disappointing, but I love the satellite layer and how satellites give bonuses to specific tiles on the map layer.

    I immediately thought of its application to a future Civ mainline game. Imagine if you have military satellite that give units in range special buffs, or communication satellites that give your territory buffs etc.
     
  6. Eagle Pursuit

    Eagle Pursuit Scir-Gerefa

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    The covert ops were a bit op, but I thought they were fun. At least more so than the Civ V espionage.
     
  7. Ryika

    Ryika Lazy Wannabe Artista

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    Don't see how satellites would fit into the game. The sort of satellite that interacts with the map doesn't exist (yet), and satellites would only even come into play in the last 1% of the game or so.

    The spy system.. sure, why not? Assuming they find a way to to fix the "Can't raise intrigue vs. can't defend against intrigue if everybody dogpiles on you"-balance problem. There needs to be more interaction with other systems that allows intrigue to become "unmanageable" for good reasons, like the other Civ dominating your culture. Having high-level Covert Ops only be possible because the AI is too stupid to move their spies properly isn't exactly good design.

    Diplomatic Agreements... mhh... nah. Too much overlap with other systems.
     
  8. bite

    bite Unofficial Civilization Cartographer Moderator

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    I honestly think they did Espionage a lot better in BE than Civ5, it is one of the good things about BE, satellites might not be around for enough time to warrant, and we'll see about diplomacy
     
  9. dexters

    dexters Gods & Emperors Supporter

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    Abstractions of communication satellites would be doable, it would only be applicable to territory it has coverage for and on faction specific areas.

    They would give cities/units under their area of control some unspecified buffs.
     
  10. Hajee

    Hajee Prince

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    I excaully hope so.

    The capital was nice to upgrading and make your leader more unique
    The spying was alot better then civ 5, but can be improved
    Satellites would be a nice, although would have different functions

    I was thought civ BE was just a test game for new ideas and concept with out having to invest much into a whole new game.

    BE was just a total conversion mod written over the old code of civ 5. There was files with the same name has civ 5 in that game.

    There is alot that BE can offer civ 6
     
  11. labellavienna

    labellavienna Warlord

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    Noooooo please don't make it like be. I think BE was a sort of "test" experiment to see how players would react to a certain style of CIv, it felt like it could have been a futuristic expansion to CIv v but not.
     
  12. kaspergm

    kaspergm Deity

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    Haven't played BE, but the Espionage system of Civ5 was seriously lacking, so this is something I hope will be expanded over the course of Civ6, even if not in vanilla release.
     
  13. Hakan-i Cihan

    Hakan-i Cihan Emperor

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    The explorer seemed to be more useful in BE and not just only in the beginning, which could be implemented for the scout too.
     
  14. DCParry

    DCParry Chieftain

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    Both the diplomatic capital and the espionage system were great. I wonder if the unit upgrades will appear in some form (I would definitely love this): Your melee unit upgrade with technology, but maintaining any base bonus (such as UA for UU's).

    I would also like to see the station mechanic worked in with city-states to make them more dynamic (you actually have to grow your CS trading partners AND actually protect them).
     
  15. stealth_nsk

    stealth_nsk Deity

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    1. Diplomatic capital is interesting option, but only if we have nothing better than barter-style trading in diplomacy. Also, it's a kind of system which have zero value in MP. If diplomacy will be done with diplomatic capital as basis, it would kill that little pieces of diplomacy we still have in MP.

    2. Satellites just come too late to have serious game impact. And their role isn't really significant. Just a toy to play with.

    3. Covert Ops... Well, we'll surely have some form of espionage, but it will be connected to the rest of game systems (economics, civics and so on), so it's hard to tell how it would look like. In my opinion CivBE covert ops are generally Civ5 system, with added cool abilities requiring so much effort they nearly never used.
     
  16. Oerdin

    Oerdin Deity

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    God, I hope not.
     
  17. Hajee

    Hajee Prince

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    Satellites would work just fine in the late game.

    Provide intel by looking at a wide area of land, perhaps if you a Satellites overhead of your units, then the Enemy units lose there flanking bonus, or you could get a better strikes from air and artillery.

    Just because they will be used in the late does not mean they are useless and should not be in the game.

    But there should be a Satellite building (only one) that allows to use them and limit how many you can have, which could create a fun tactic to target that building and destroy it so the other civ lose contact with their Satellites
     
  18. Ryika

    Ryika Lazy Wannabe Artista

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    But it sort of does mean exactly that.

    I mean I would understand it if it were the last third of the game, but assuming the game still ends in the modern age satellites start becoming good tools when the game is usually already decided anyway.

    You just don't need them because you're either already dominating militarily, or because you're already in the final steps of building your spaceship. What good is a mechanic that only comes into play at that point?
     
  19. Hajee

    Hajee Prince

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    Some people Like myself don't play Civ to win. I play to nation build, turn off all victory conditions, and Just play.

    So yes if you are playing to win, and like to rush win early on then perhaps you never use them.
    Some people like to start in the modern bypassing everything

    But there alot times when you are trying to win you still go in the last era.

    p.s. I like your Avatar
     
  20. Ryika

    Ryika Lazy Wannabe Artista

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    <3 Harley

    Hopefully the movie ends up being good!

    That's true of course, but I think features must be valued by how well they work with how we assume the average game to play out, because that's really where most people will spend their time with. Because developing features isn't free and anything that is added but ends up being used very rarely is a really questionable investment.

    With that said though, I actually see a way how it could become profitable to add those mechanics: By creating little expansions that focus on a certain period of time. With the shorter Multiplayer Games as an alternative IIRC the devs already somewhat confirmed some sort of Singleplayer-Version of that this could very well be a reason to add more details to that later part of the game that, during the normal game, wouldn't really have that much time to shine.

    Especially given that Modern Combat always was the best Combat in CiV I could see that working very well.
     

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