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Will Civ6 punish players for expansion?

Discussion in 'Civ6 - General Discussions' started by historix69, Jun 23, 2016.

  1. Ryika

    Ryika Lazy Wannabe Artista

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    I think they would do good making as much stuff as they can situational, because things like "50% faster settlers" will be rather binary. It's either good enough that you want to create a situation where you can use it every game, or you will never end up using it.

    Well, for "high-end play" that is, I imagine a lot of the choices will allow people to vary up their game in more "casual" matches.
     
  2. Magil

    Magil Monarch

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    Incidentally, I am fine with this to some extent, as long as everything has a place. The problem with social policies is that they are static and unchangeable. Civics are not. Civics can be changed and swapped out, giving you different bonuses at different times. Some are going to be no-brainers. I don't mind that, as long as there are options that are not. This becomes much easier when it's something that can be swapped around as opposed to a permanent investment in a branching path dedicated to one particular strategy.

    You use the +50% Settler Production civic as an example. This is part of the Liberty tree in Civ V, which is dedicated to a particular style of play. It requires you to take particular other policies first, and you're generally encouraged to finish the tree for its bonuses. Once you take this policy in V, you're always going to have it, you made the investment and you're essentially encouraged towards a particular kind of play. This is not necessarily the case in VI, as you can swap that civic in and out for other options.

    Plus, we don't know the balance. +50% Settler production is grand, but what civil research unlocks that civic? There may be a very desirable civics down another branch in the tree. We also know that civil research unlocks wonders. What if there's a wonder you want to nab elsewhere in the tree? I would say it's not easy to evaluate this early, knowing this little about the development.
     
  3. ProMeTheus112

    ProMeTheus112 Chieftain

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    So settlers become more and more expansive every time you build another. Not sure how this works with stealing settlers. In the videos we've seen about 2 towns before year 0, 3rd towns maybe shortly after and by year 1400 maybe only a fourth which seems really low number. I'm really curious still about the possibilities for expansion, it doesn't look like they aren't there, but players including AIs were not building many at all. Then again it's on a rather tiny map.
     
  4. Big J Money

    Big J Money Chieftain

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    It seems to me that the limit on expansion is more so that you need to focus on staving off barbarians; exploration is slower; the map doesn't look that big; and you have districts as well as buildings to pay for (in terms of production needs).

    I'm curious what happens in QA when they test settler spam instead of focusing on those things.
     
  5. ProMeTheus112

    ProMeTheus112 Chieftain

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    Yes actually I like that part a lot (like most of what I saw from the game), that barbarians are all over the place and stronger so that you kind of need to secure and get involved in areas where you may want to settle. That's interesting also in terms planning how to get useful promotions if you do well, and establish your strength somewhere against other players rather than just be the first to rush a settler and poof those tiles are your color. I also like slower exploration and an incentive to maybe keep your first units closer to home, so that exploration lives through more phases and you gradually discover the world as it matters to know what's further away.

    Now what I'm really curious about is how much room is there between something like early settler spam and the opposite, how many different rythms and approaches to expanding there can be. Are players expected to play mostly with only 3 cities before year 0 ? Only 5 in the middle ages? Is there some range to this? If you decide to settle very early and not necessarily let your capital be the largest and most powerful town for not focusing on growing it first, can you compete? Being a less "head"-centered civ?

    It's a huge question for me, because I feel it's one of the most important systems in the game that allows you to play a diversity of styles and layouts and games or not.
     
  6. Big J Money

    Big J Money Chieftain

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    Another aspect to it is that cities you conquer will have penalties until you make peace with the other civ. So it's encouraged to make peace to gain the fruits from the war. So if you want to take out an entire civ, you need to do it fairly quickly to get back to peace time again.
     
  7. ProMeTheus112

    ProMeTheus112 Chieftain

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    I remember hearing Ed say "about this time we should really be thinking of where to settle our 3rd city", I just hope there is good freedom for players to pick their rate and style of expansion, and that in general you get to play a large enough civ where there are a good number of choices to make so that you have a quantity of tools to shape a complex strategy on a large scale. The systems seem all great for that I'm just worried about expansion styles right now.

    That sounds great to make conquest not too dominant as a way to expand. It could even be a limiting factor about the score thing... haha will see but I like it.
     
  8. D712

    D712 Queen

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    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u3djGPOn4GY

    In Arumba's game, he had five cities as Brazil before the year 0. I'm fairly certain that in some of the demos, the people playing were trying to play it safe/trying to avoid barbarians. Arumba was actively trying to settle land. I think that, depending on the map size and the aggressiveness/existence of barbarians, people who want to play wide definitely can. There are no penalties empire wide for the number of cities you have, the only real discouraging factors are the potential negligences towards your other cities (i.e. instead of building a farm or district, you build another settler or military unit and your city growth slows and potentially so does your production).

    I feel like the ambiguity on this issue stems from the fact that all of the information we have is heavily based in the chronological beginning of the game. Because they're still unveiling how each system operates, they seem to be trying to just explain from the ground up. Since religion is pretty different than it was in CiV (and it's a path to victory now), they needed to show how that develops and that hinges on staying relatively small (building things for faith, performing tasks for city-states that are faith based, etc. instead of expanding constantly). Once they get finished with explaining how these mechanics now work (including espionage, trade, late game diplomacy, the civic tree, hidden agendas, etc.) the discourse will be more focused on the late game and the press surrounding it will hopefully have more examples of what large maps look like, what expansive empires look like after having been expanding for a whole game.

    tl&dr: don't worry just yet! the current cycle of information seems to lean towards small civs or at least points in time where your civ will inevitably be small. :)
     
  9. chazzycat

    chazzycat Chieftain

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    From watching the live stream it seems that the barbs are too strong for settler spam. Cavalry camps + no city ranged attack until walls, means if you don't have much military the barbs will run all over you. No sense expanding just to watch it all get pillaged.
     
  10. D712

    D712 Queen

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    I just think the expansion comes in a different way/at a different time. You can't get the colonization card until a certain point anyways, and that greatly diminishes the rising cost of settlers.

    I think they want to move settler spam or something of the sort to the later game, around the accurate time historically. Given that builders build improvements in one turn, you can get your city up and running faster (and that's improved with various civics that both extend builders charges and reduce the production cost of districts).
     
  11. Larsenex

    Larsenex Chieftain

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    ^^^ This makes perfect sense. I like it.
     
  12. Big J Money

    Big J Money Chieftain

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    Yeah, I really wish I could play to test out the concept of fast colonization with 1-2 builders to go with every settler.
     
  13. ProMeTheus112

    ProMeTheus112 Chieftain

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    thanks for the link
    yeah that makes sense it's good if it leaves room for a expanding phase in the midgame after everybody has made a range of strategic choices. And some will pick the +50% card, others not.. still variations possible early on about number of towns.
    I think now my #1 concern goes to the speed of the game :p and how much it slows or not as it proceeds. (turn wait, animation and interface response time)
    if this is nailed good enough..
    I want to see the perfect civ game >.<
     

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