will i get better playing at a lower difficulty?
- Thread starter jake2007
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VoiceOfUnreason
Deity
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- Dec 5, 2005
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Probably not. The most common problem (at just about every level) is that players have too much slack in their game. You may do better at a lower level, but it isn't going to teach you as much.
The two most effective approaches I know are (1) to play starts over and over again, until you begin to recognize what kinds of things are mistakes, and (2) to play different variant games, forcing your attention of one particular game mechanic until you understand how it works, and how to apply it in a real game.
KrikkitTwo
Immortal
- Joined
- Apr 3, 2004
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- 12,418
The key to learning is playing at the 'edge' of your game, where you sometimes lose and sometimes win
If you win all the time on warlord, and lose all the time on noble, then try and
1) do interesting tactics on warlord, try to win in ways you haven't won before.. this can help build up your 'bag o tricks'
2) see what is killing you on noble, are you being outteched, mass attacked, spy poiosoned? try and see what is the weakness in your strategy and use things from that 'bags o tricks' to try and shore them up. and see if it works... do you at least live longer, get closer to your goal, etc.
Basically drop down levels until you win, and then increase levels until you lose.
If you win all the time on warlord, and lose all the time on noble, then try and
1) do interesting tactics on warlord, try to win in ways you haven't won before.. this can help build up your 'bag o tricks'
2) see what is killing you on noble, are you being outteched, mass attacked, spy poiosoned? try and see what is the weakness in your strategy and use things from that 'bags o tricks' to try and shore them up. and see if it works... do you at least live longer, get closer to your goal, etc.
Basically drop down levels until you win, and then increase levels until you lose.
Big Boss Man
Chieftain
Well look on the brightside , you have gained exp in what not to do - now gain exp in what to do ! So you really want to win ? Simply be the Civ working the most tiles . What you thought I'd tell you to build this wonder or raise a stack o doom ? If they will help you get more tiles do it ! Victory in Civ IV really can be this simple .... Work more tiles and see for yourself
Listen to VoU. More often than not, he's got pretty good advice.
Don't drop down. The advice VoU has is good. Take a game, and keep playing the first 50 turns or so. Try different things. Keep trying a different strategy until something works. This is how I got to the point of being able to beat emperor half the time. I spent a long time killing monarch, but getting destroyed at emperor. It wasn't until I took a game or two and replayed them from an early point that I learned a few things that allow me to win about half the time on emperor.
Don't drop down. The advice VoU has is good. Take a game, and keep playing the first 50 turns or so. Try different things. Keep trying a different strategy until something works. This is how I got to the point of being able to beat emperor half the time. I spent a long time killing monarch, but getting destroyed at emperor. It wasn't until I took a game or two and replayed them from an early point that I learned a few things that allow me to win about half the time on emperor.
"Slacking" is probably the biggest reason for not going up a level. I remember I used to automate workers... I had trouble with the whip. I didn't want to micro my cities (still don't, so don't do that enough). And so on. Now I'm at Monarch, and I'm quite certain if I went to the trouble of microing everything I would be at Emperor. But I rather slack and stay at Monarch 
"Slacking" is probably the biggest reason for not going up a level. I remember I used to automate workers... I had trouble with the whip. I didn't want to micro my cities (still don't, so don't do that enough). And so on. Now I'm at Monarch, and I'm quite certain if I went to the trouble of microing everything I would be at Emperor. But I rather slack and stay at Monarch
most to the point advice.
Jake, I don't know where your play is lacking but I suggest sticking at noble and trying variants.
I'd even suggest variants + reloading to try out different approaches when you feel you slip down.
My suggested progression is :
1) - go for domination on a pangea-like map. I put this in first place, because this is the most straightforward victory condition, where you need to go to war and to build up your empire.
How ? I found the best way to do so is to find a game here on the forum with enough details to "copycat" what was done. I was stuck at noble for a while, couldn't beat prince until I tried to redo what Hendrickszoon did for GotM 2. He had written a really good spoiler, not detailed enough for me to get the exact same score (his was over 200k
), but detailed enough to have an idea of what he was doing and what for. Try to find a game somewhere, meeting your level and version, and try to cope and copy it. This should lead you to a shameless copy and a confident victory. I promise you after that, you won't see the game with the same eyes.
2) - go for cultural, on a continent map. I put this in second place, because it will help you understand a few tricks in the diplomacy department (staying away from unwanted wars, tech trading with a plan, spreading a religion for world peace) without too much concern about who's leading the race. This is mostly a "solitary" victory condition, where you learn the price and value of peace.
How? There are some articles about cultural victories. I suggest going into cottage spam mode, this will allow you to understand the value of workers, growth and commerce. If you do it right for the cultural game, you will never again be trailing in the tech race
.This should lead you to an almost failsafe way tovictory . Once you master this way of winning, you know you can win most games regardless of your neighbours and map. Confidence should be high now. And your toolbox should be a bit stuffed in those areas :
- expansion
- commerce through cottages
- religion spreading
- basic diplomacy
- culture mechanics
3) Conquest on a small pangea-like map. This is the easiest (almost cheesy) victory. This will help you understand the power of military.
How ?
Build a few (2+capital is plenty, 1+capital is just right) high production cities, tech to archery and horseback riding while building barracks, build HAs non stop. Raze everything on your way.
There are numerous games each month in the GotM spoiler threads you could try to redo.
After this, you won't see a small tech disadvantage as a lost game anymore. The AIs suck at warmongering, and you can always take some advantage here.
4) Space race on a continent map. If you're a chicken, you can choose your neighbours
. This is not my favourite way to win a game, but it's the one which forces you through the techtree. How? there are articles about the space race, and mostly there are loads of SGs, GotMs showing how to get it done.
It's not very difficult once you understood (see 1) how to expand into a dominating position.
After those 4 games (try to restart the same game until you get through for each "lesson"), you'll be laughing at those noble AIs
.
r_rolo1
King of myself
^^ I would add:
5) Space race from a isolated start. I'm suspect to talk about it, but playing isolated starts helped me to learn a lot of what tech you really need and what techs you can afford to let behind for a while ( because you need to be more picky about your tech path : AI trade techs with each other and you need to keep somewhat in the same level someway )
But the best advice I can give is to play 50 turns at the time, stop, write some notes ( as if you were going to give the game to someone else ) describing your plans, what you did and what happened, do something else (laundry , TV, take a walk with the dog, whatever.... ) and then pick up the game again after reading your notes and to think a little about it. It surely helps you to keep track of your main plan ( you can get extremely tired and unfocused if you want to play 4-5 h in a row ) and if things go wrong, you'll have a better idea of what failed.
5) Space race from a isolated start. I'm suspect to talk about it, but playing isolated starts helped me to learn a lot of what tech you really need and what techs you can afford to let behind for a while ( because you need to be more picky about your tech path : AI trade techs with each other and you need to keep somewhat in the same level someway )
But the best advice I can give is to play 50 turns at the time, stop, write some notes ( as if you were going to give the game to someone else ) describing your plans, what you did and what happened, do something else (laundry , TV, take a walk with the dog, whatever.... ) and then pick up the game again after reading your notes and to think a little about it. It surely helps you to keep track of your main plan ( you can get extremely tired and unfocused if you want to play 4-5 h in a row ) and if things go wrong, you'll have a better idea of what failed.
great advice R-rolo1!
the break every now and then + notes is certainly helpful to keep track of what you're doing.
Reading through a couple of Succession Games (in the subforum of the stories and tales subforum) will help you to understand what r-rolo1 means with "notes".
You can't start building things for no reason if you take notes.
the break every now and then + notes is certainly helpful to keep track of what you're doing.
Reading through a couple of Succession Games (in the subforum of the stories and tales subforum) will help you to understand what r-rolo1 means with "notes".
You can't start building things for no reason if you take notes
.
I was in the same situation as you when I found this site. Couldn't figure out how to win at Noble to save my life. Sucession Games (first lurking and then taking part) shot my playing level up dramatically. The interaction with others and their analysis of what you're doing will help no end.
It's fun too
r_rolo's suggestion of taking a break after 50 turns and thinking about what you're currently doing and where you're going (more importantly) is good advice as well.
r_rolo1
King of myself
My experience with the SG's is exactly the same: I find that my game is much better after having the conditioned reflex of needing to explain to other people what am I doing there ( and having some 
from less than optimal moves ) ... That and seing other ways of tacke a certain difficulty that the game posed us certainly help us to refine our offline game. But I digress....
@ Ozbenno
You having difficulties on Noble?
That should have been a long time ago 
from less than optimal moves ) ... That and seing other ways of tacke a certain difficulty that the game posed us certainly help us to refine our offline game. But I digress....@ Ozbenno
You having difficulties on Noble?
That should have been a long time ago Replaying the map of the last competitive loss you experienced is a good way to really learn how to adopt the strategies you learn here to every day use. Since there is no mystery as to the map, you can really focus on the benefits you may get from different decisions. Its the difference between knowing how to play better and playing better.
After getting steamrolled in the modern era by a PA with in a prince level game, I did a reroll of the same map. I focused more on expansion and diplomacy, because I saw the root of my failure was not being large enough to absorb the AI's attacks and not having valuable allies. Because of the difficulty maintaining tech parity with a large empire earlier in the game, I was forced to run a specialized economy, although I usually run a cottage economy. Through this board, I had been aware of what a SE was and its benefits, but my play style hadn't been receptive to running this type of economy. In playing that game, I learned alot about the weakness of my play style. I was building too many unneeded buildings and wonders. I also wasn't building enough units. Finally, I wasn't leveraging the traits of my leader. Since that game, I've won every game on Prince, artic starts excluded.
After getting steamrolled in the modern era by a PA with in a prince level game, I did a reroll of the same map. I focused more on expansion and diplomacy, because I saw the root of my failure was not being large enough to absorb the AI's attacks and not having valuable allies. Because of the difficulty maintaining tech parity with a large empire earlier in the game, I was forced to run a specialized economy, although I usually run a cottage economy. Through this board, I had been aware of what a SE was and its benefits, but my play style hadn't been receptive to running this type of economy. In playing that game, I learned alot about the weakness of my play style. I was building too many unneeded buildings and wonders. I also wasn't building enough units. Finally, I wasn't leveraging the traits of my leader. Since that game, I've won every game on Prince, artic starts excluded.
erikthecelt
Old, Geezer, Unoriginal
HOF Gauntlets are a good learning exercise as well. Discussions can be very lively and taking several runs at the same conditions gives a chance to pick up a few tricks. Players here are always willing to share tips and strategies. The minor gauntlets run for two weeks, so they can be fairly quick games usually. It's also good to see your name moving up the tables, helps to show that you are learning and have improved.
TheGreatSteve
Warlord
- Joined
- Jan 20, 2006
- Messages
- 145
Playing on a lower level can help, generally if you're trying to improve in some specific aspect of the game or another. Higher difficulties will magnify your troubles, and while this is helpful to some extent, they can also be magnified to where you can't find the original problem to fix it. Drop down a level and refine your play when they're nuisances, rather than trying to fight them as game-killers.
Just don't pick up any bad habits
Just don't pick up any bad habits
