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[GS] Will Maori be the worst Civ whatsoever?

Discussion in 'Civ6 - General Discussions' started by Lily_Lancer, Dec 5, 2018.

  1. NukeAJS

    NukeAJS King

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    Ed specifically said that they will never be able to place a district on bonus features during the livestream whereas other civs could.
     
    bite likes this.
  2. acluewithout

    acluewithout Deity

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    Why do you say Norway is screwed? Because they lost their overflow, or because Maori are maybe better at early exploration?

    And why do you say England is nerfed again? Is that because of Maori, or England’s other changes?

    I think England, Norway and Spain look like they’ll still be fun in GS, although rising sea levels worry me a little. I find I’m enjoying Norway more the more I accept they’re about rushing Shipbuilding, and ignoring harbours, and pushing faith.

    I’m not sure where the balance sits with naval power in the game. England, Spain and Norway seem weaker in terms of Navy, but I’m not sure, and maybe they’re more consistently good across eras. Zulu being so good a navy bothers me, although looks like they’re getting reworked.
     
  3. pgm123

    pgm123 Emperor

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    Maybe it only needs the second part. I still think it would be kind of cool to have ships in a support role for a land invasion.
     
  4. gozpel

    gozpel Couch-potato (fortified)

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    I think Maori will be just ok, nothing more nothing less, until we understand how they actually work.

    We have only seen a short video of who they are and a bit of what they can do. I think the concept
    is really fun, it may take a few rerolls on Deity though lol, but I think they will be quite good.

    We all know what they already have, so think about your own strategies in any game with any Civ.

    Yesterday I rolled America, have the Romans S of me and of course they attacked on….what...turn16, yep.
    I held them back and the razed 2 of their cities and planted my own there. Trajan will be forever grumpy,
    but I needed to put campuses down and a lot more, so time flies by.

    Now it's turn 200 and I am so slow with research, (142pt), 153gpt and I will face a dark era..

    My galley just met Kongo, 302 science per turn and 1200 military power, I have 400 mil power.
    So change of plans accordingly, build, buy and upgrade units as fast as I can. I will take Kumasi on
    my right next and the the Roman Empire on my continent, they still live on on another continent.

    This is what makes Deity fun, it will be a very slow win, not by Lily Lancers standards of course, but
    it is a challenge nevertheless.

    I think Maori will be a fun catch-up Civ, as Georgia already is. And thanks to the community hating
    Georgia so much, I am going to play them now. :) I won with them twice already, but I like some things
    about them, and Deity is on.

    Sorry for interrupting the thread with my own stuff. :)
     
  5. Temppu

    Temppu Warlord

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    What is it with the opposition for harvesting. This amount of anti-harvesting commentary makes this thread feel like a Green party convention.

    Sure, pointing out that not using a mechanic that a new civ cannot use is on topic. However, the eagerness to oppose this mechanic in particular feels very much like an ideological, even political, clause.
     
    Siptah likes this.
  6. Victoria

    Victoria Regina Supporter

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    The Museum was good and felt British, I never had an issue with it. No idea why they removed it,that auto theming feature was good and combined with 6 did make the museum quite strong. Pax is a joke and an extra ship in a crappy boring ship game is meh, Pax britannica should at least try and match the name as the possibility is there now, instead it has been nerfed to nothing. The extra couple of production after hooking things up is nothing in a city already creating 30+ production and the resource bonus is a couple of turns difference. Would swap all that for the museum that at least felt like a british thing.
    I mean a real cool move would have been to double factory output and emissions or make the factory earlier, that would be another Victoria thing but no.
    It's not about power, its about feel.

    WRT Norway.
    I play continents, there are not many map types and why would you play Norway on a pangea anyway.... The issue with continents is there is often a smaller continent that if I know I can get my Norwegian settler to earlier ... its a good place to be. Norway now compete with a race that has settlers that move 4 tiles in ocean... and quite rightly I may add. Lets be honest about this.... to fix Norway just get rid of the negatives of the beserker and make it the cool unit we all wished it should be.

    All the weak starting nations have more of a struggle.... I have my defensive army but along comes
    Mapuche at +10
    Mongol at + god knows
    Scythian healing swarms
    Varu
    Toa
    Legion

    The introduction of Toa made weak starting civs worse.
     
    acluewithout likes this.
  7. krokobone

    krokobone Chieftain

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    It's nothing more than a question of playstyle for me at least. I like keeping the variety on the map, so I don't harvest or chop anything, except for some rare cases. I understand that this is not the optimal playstyle, but it doesn't matter to me for two reasons: one is that I want to enjoy the game up to the future era, so I'm really just playing casually, the other is that the game is really not that hard to win without optimal gameplay. This is why I disagree with the Maori being the "worst civ whatsoever", as at least from my perspective, they add interesting variety to the game, without hindering my playstyle at all.

    Of course I understand that many people play the game differently and harvest a lot, and I can see how they are affected negatively by the Maori ability. I think it's really cool that there are a lot of different playstyles among the fan base, and this forum is a good opportunity to share these with each other.
     
  8. Victoria

    Victoria Regina Supporter

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    100% with this. I just am a mechanics person and get bored easily. Playing optimally is great for understanding mechanics but gets very samey and I love variety. Chop is nerfed correctly, the overflow was a little cheesy to say the least and led to a feeling that it was a little incorrect. The chop game is still there and if you looked carefully at what the good choppers say, they did not overflow all the time, just when it was easy enough to do.
    What the chop nerf has done is made resource chops stronger and as the Maori wants to keep their woodland and cannot chop their stone (they did harvest greenstone, it was sort of their gold) then the Maori chop setback is quite significant, especially as you cannot build districts on resources (duh, you can build districts on snow why not on stone?)
     
    Last edited: Dec 7, 2018
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  9. blackcatatonic

    blackcatatonic Queen of Meme

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    I'm not one of those you quoted, but as yet another player who tends not to harvest: it's not that I have any objection to it, it's simply that I find it much more immersive if my Civ is working a pasture of cows for a long time rather than consuming it all in one go. I don't really play to win, I play to build an empire and enjoy all the little cogs whirring as part of that. To see my dudes farming cows gives me satisfaction that I don't get from instantly boosting my city through some kind of insane burger-feasting bonanza :crazyeye:
     
  10. Equilin

    Equilin Prince

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    The chop overflow breaks the immersion of them, and me. Imagine playing civ non-competitively, looking up the forums and see people finish wonders in 3 turns because of chop overflow is totally immersion-killing. It puts so much hate on chopping, but i guess that'll settle now with the fix.
     
  11. Victoria

    Victoria Regina Supporter

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    Unconvinced, the choppers can still win faster than the damage done by the dust devils from what I have seen. Chopping is real, it did and does happen.
    If they were clever they would put in renewable forests as a trade thing.
     
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  12. Tech Osen

    Tech Osen Emperor

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    I think it's not really an opposition against harvesting but against the notion that it's the best and only way to play and a civ that can't take advantage of that is completely useless. Lily_Lancer seems to have the my way or the high way attitude. Instead of declaring them useless she could simply have said that they don't fit her playstyle. Which is fine since there are dozens of other civs for her to play.
     
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  13. Temppu

    Temppu Warlord

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    These discussions tend to end up in harvest nothing or harvest everything debate. The reason for this may be that a part of the currently strongest play is to constantly look for what to harvest next. In such a situation, only argument to not seek to harvest is it "breaking immersion" and to "avoid repetition and micro management". These arguments arguments have their grain of subjectiveness.

    We will see what the combined effect of Climate and productuon oproduct fix will be, and whether there will be situations in which a city with Magnus placed should not chop everything there is Builders for. Maybe a middle ground between chop all and chop nothing will become the strongest play, who knows.
     
  14. Siptah

    Siptah Eternal Chieftain

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    I really wonder how you can play the game and never harvest at all. I mean harvesting for the boost is a gameplay decision. But building a wonder or district on a bonus resource without prior harvesting this resource is not just voluntary inefficient play. It‘s somehow against logic, like if you build a unit only to disband it. Doesn’t mean I never do it - but never harvesting at all? I don‘t get why you would never do it. Sorry. It‘s not even long term vs. short term evaluation or having a pretty Empire to look at.
     
    Last edited: Dec 7, 2018
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  15. Victoria

    Victoria Regina Supporter

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    indeed... seen plenty of plays of districts being placed directly over forests and jungle... I think it is a lazy thing perhaps.
     
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  16. Martinus

    Martinus Emperor

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    Haha, same. I gotta say I missed those alarmist threads.

    When people find out that chopping contributes to global warming I expect a slew of OMG THE GAME IS BROKEN threads, too.
     
  17. Gaonac'h

    Gaonac'h Chieftain

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    I think he just meant Maori will be very interesting to play as they have a huge penality.
    Such as Egypt is probably the most fun civ to play right now.
     
  18. Tech Osen

    Tech Osen Emperor

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    I doubt that. Regardless, I will push that system at least once to see how it works. And I'm guessing there will be a viable locus tactic to just conquer, chop, advance and win dominance.
     
  19. SammyKhalifa

    SammyKhalifa Deity

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    There's been an attitude like that among some since the dawn of the forums from what I can tell. I remember hearing about how if you don't micromanage your citizens between turns then you don't even deserve to own or play the game. I feel like it's been worse in the past with some people and don't think Lily does that, but it's probably why people have such a strong reaction to it.
     
  20. MooFreaky

    MooFreaky Meatbag Destroyer

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    I mix between optimisation and roleplaying depending on my mood. While chopping is extremely powerful, I have my doubts that this will stop the Maori being excellent.
    If I'm playing an optimal deity game if I reach turn 200 I restart as it's a fail, and chopping isn't that important to my gameplay. I keep my cities small, I don't want to be over size 4 in most cities. So food resource harvesting isn't an issue, and it sounds like I'll be able to chop those trees anyway.
    The only real issue I see is that the 3-4 bigger cities I need will take longer to grow... which will absolutely slow things down but I don't know that it will be significant.
    I don't even bother with builders until mid game, as they aren't worth the cost, so the extra production will probably be extremely useful to get my army out and conquering earlier.
    A couple of cogs is a big difference early on, and may have more of an impact (or at least neutralise the negative) than the inability to harvest.

    That said, it is only ONE way to play. And being optimal is no more the correct way than playing on settler difficulty, having ICS and getting every wonder in the game.
    The original question has valid discussion, but both sides of the argument have people acting like their way is superior. It's about fun, and everyone should do that however they want. Who cares if someone does it different to you.
     
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